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superpc
09-11-2009, 01:49 PM
have anyone notice that for each comic he has taken over he makes everything bigger, greater (the number of character and faction, though not necessarily the story). just take a look at Superman, apparently having 3 (power girl is still a kryptonian though not of mainstream universe) kryptonian is not enough there needs to be more than 100000 of them more, and for their enemies, general sam lane an a planet full of magician.

having 3600 green lantern is not enough, we now have more than 7200 GL, plus scores of other lanterns (sinestro has at least 3600 member at the start of sinestro corps war) from every color of the rainbow (literally). with GL books he even thinks all the lantern is STILL not enough, he has to resurrect dead people.

I wonder, if he ever takes over batman books, maybe he'll have batman take over leagues of shadows and make an army of batmen.

when do you guys think enough is enough? when will geoff johns stopped adding new faction and character and use what he already have?

Old School
09-11-2009, 02:15 PM
have anyone notice that for each comic he has taken over he makes everything bigger, greater (the number of character and faction, though not necessarily the story). just take a look at Superman, apparently having 3 (power girl is still a kryptonian though not of mainstream universe) kryptonian is not enough there needs to be more than 100000 of them more, and for their enemies, general sam lane an a planet full of magician.

having 3600 green lantern is not enough, we now have more than 7200 GL, plus scores of other lanterns (sinestro has at least 3600 member at the start of sinestro corps war) from every color of the rainbow (literally). with GL books he even thinks all the lantern is STILL not enough, he has to resurrect dead people.

I wonder, if he ever takes over batman books, maybe he'll have batman take over leagues of shadows and make an army of batmen.

when do you guys think enough is enough? when will geoff johns stopped adding new faction and character and use what he already have?

if creators stopped and just used what we had, there would be no progression

no wally west, no barry allen, no justice league of america, no young justice, etc

no tim drake, no conner, etc

I applaud geoff

superpc
09-11-2009, 02:20 PM
if creators stopped and just used what we had, there would be no progression

no wally west, no barry allen, no justice league of america, no young justice, etc

no tim drake, no conner, etc

I applaud geoff

justice league is a compilation of previously existing heroes. what you said is geoff problem. other writer just content on adding new characters, wally west, tim drake, is only one character, while geoff feels the need of adding new faction with thousand of new character.

W.West
09-11-2009, 02:34 PM
If it doesn't hurt the story and makes a natural sense then I'm fine with it. That being said, I don't think Geoff Johns could write a Batman story I would enjoy.

Shingo Wol
09-11-2009, 02:41 PM
I really dont like the whole new krypton crap.

Old School
09-11-2009, 02:42 PM
justice league is a compilation of previously existing heroes. what you said is geoff problem. other writer just content on adding new characters, wally west, tim drake, is only one character, while geoff feels the need of adding new faction with thousand of new character.

but those characters would have never exisited, if a creator didnt evolve from what was already there.

such as firestorm, elongated man, red tornado, vixen and on and on.

your talking about geoff adding thousands. these thousands make page space, cannon fodder, etc. hes not focusing on 1,000's of characters where we need to know their names and stuff. every comic has a core group of characters and the corps still does as well

its a big universe and geoff is just filling it up.

superpc
09-11-2009, 02:52 PM
If it doesn't hurt the story and makes a natural sense then I'm fine with it. That being said, I don't think Geoff Johns could write a Batman story I would enjoy.

but those characters would have never exisited, if a creator didnt evolve from what was already there.

such as firestorm, elongated man, red tornado, vixen and on and on.

your talking about geoff adding thousands. these thousands make page space, cannon fodder, etc. hes not focusing on 1,000's of characters where we need to know their names and stuff. every comic has a core group of characters and the corps still does as well

its a big universe and geoff is just filling it up.

in the case of green lantern i can understand. it really is a big universe and before GL and more so GLC i never even realize how huge the scope of DC universe really is. adding all those new faction to this universe is fitting.

but he doesn't have to do that in all his books. i don't think new krypton is necessary, all the basic idea of storyline presented in new krypton can still be presented with existing characters without the need of adding 100000 kryptonian.

JohnnyV
09-11-2009, 02:56 PM
If it doesn't hurt the story and makes a natural sense then I'm fine with it. That being said, I don't think Geoff Johns could write a Batman story I would enjoy.

agreed. While I like Johns when it comes to events like The Blackest Night I feel that in a regular series that's just trying to tell stories his stuff becomes a bit muddled. Batman is all about personal stories with more emotion than action and epicness.

Always wanted to see a main Batman Azzarello series as it is now. I liked Broken City, and would like to see his take on the current goings-ons of the Batman storyline.

Dr. Naysay
09-11-2009, 03:06 PM
I haven't been reading the Superman stuff... but isn't New Krytpon populated by the previously bottled city of Kandor? Making it not new at all.... or am I wrong?

Lantern
09-11-2009, 04:10 PM
I'm glad we have a GLC back again. It was such a bummer when we lost everything with Emerald Twilight. They tried to give us substitute corps but it never worked. Finally we have the GLC back and it makes sense that they would have partners, just like cops. I'm glad to see how it works out. With World of Krypton, that was a writer's compilation on Superman, so Geoff might be the main man or not behind it, but who said that it will last forever. Remember one of Superman's tag lines is "Sole surviver of a doomed planet." I personally look forward to Geoff John's writing Batman. I think he could really spice up Batman's villains and give Bruce or Dick some really good insights.

Delusions of Grandeur indeed, especially when a GL event is the #1 book on Diamond's sales charts. I hope he has more.

Andrew NDB
09-11-2009, 04:39 PM
I'm glad we have a GLC back again.

Thank Tomasi (when he was editor) and Gibbons for that, not Geoff.

Mister Ed
09-11-2009, 04:41 PM
Thank Tomasi (when he was editor) and Gibbons for that, not Geoff.

I think he is referring to the organization, not necessarily the book. Geoff IS responsible for the organization being revived (though I'm pretty sure that, had he not done it, some one else would have. Everything was leading that way even before Rebirth.)

Andrew NDB
09-11-2009, 04:52 PM
I think he is referring to the organization, not necessarily the book. Geoff IS responsible for the organization being revived

Nope.

1. The idea and basis for the Corps revival/Hal Jordan resurrection came from the then-editor Peter Tomasi, not Geoff.
2. The Central Power Battery was already restored pre-Rebirth & Geoff.
3. The base Corps was already in place... Kyle, John, and Kilowog were all alive and active Green Lanterns pre-Rebirth & Geoff.
4. The Guardians were already resurrected pre-Rebirth & Geoff.
5. The actual Green Lantern Corps were rebuilt in "Green Lantern Corps: Recharge," not Rebirth... and that was only co-written by Geoff.

Old School
09-11-2009, 05:00 PM
Nope.

1. The idea and basis for the Corps revival/Hal Jordan resurrection came from the then-editor Peter Tomasi, not Geoff.
2. The Central Power Battery was already restored pre-Rebirth & Geoff.
3. The base Corps was already in place... Kyle, John, and Kilowog were all alive and active Green Lanterns pre-Rebirth & Geoff.
4. The Guardians were already resurrected pre-Rebirth & Geoff.
5. The actual Green Lantern Corps were rebuilt in "Green Lantern Corps: Recharge"... which was only co-written by Geoff.


and thats that, this is why andrew is in charge here.

:)

Mister Ed
09-11-2009, 05:17 PM
Nope.

1. The idea and basis for the Corps revival/Hal Jordan resurrection came from the then-editor Peter Tomasi, not Geoff.
2. The Central Power Battery was already restored pre-Rebirth & Geoff.
3. The base Corps was already in place... Kyle, John, and Kilowog were all alive and active Green Lanterns pre-Rebirth & Geoff.
4. The Guardians were already resurrected pre-Rebirth & Geoff.
5. The actual Green Lantern Corps were rebuilt in "Green Lantern Corps: Recharge," not Rebirth... and that was only co-written by Geoff.

Like I said, things were already heading that direction, and so would have gotten there without Geoff. But you are being deliberately obtuse to deny that Geoff is the one who actually wrote them back into being.

HalFingJordan
09-11-2009, 05:19 PM
Geoff Johns now has a delusion of grandeur? Bloody hell, man, what does it take for a fandom to appreciate the man? He's a proven literary god amonst men in the comic book writing community and has bent over backwards to please just about everyone.

Andrew NDB
09-11-2009, 05:21 PM
But you are being deliberately obtuse to deny that Geoff is the one who actually wrote them back into being.

I guess I'm curious, then... what is the Geoff Johns story that "wrote them back into being" that he can claim full credit for?

Mister Ed
09-11-2009, 05:31 PM
I guess I'm curious, then... what is the Geoff Johns story that "wrote them back into being" that he can claim full credit for?

I guess I'm curious, then... how is it that you require a single STORY that Geoff can take FULL writing credit for to give him the credit, yet you were perfectly willing to give the credit to others (cutting Geoff out entirely) without the benefit of that distinction? ;)

Look, I don't really want to get into a big argument over it. It isn't that important. I'm not trying to give Geoff too much credit- like I said, even without him, the Corps was going to be coming back. But you seem to be refusing to give him ANY credit (maybe I'm misunderstanding you), which just seems disingenuous, since it sure seems like he was the creative force (not editorial, creative) behind shaping the new GL status quo.

superpc
09-11-2009, 06:12 PM
Geoff Johns now has a delusion of grandeur? Bloody hell, man, what does it take for a fandom to appreciate the man? He's a proven literary god amonst men in the comic book writing community and has bent over backwards to please just about everyone.

well he IS a good writer there's no denying that just take a look at smallville episode legion (the first time legion of superheroes got in to smallville universe) and i can't wait for justice society episode this season.

all i'm saying is he makes his every work grand and i don't think it's necessary. just look at new krypton. superman was the last kryptonian. now kandor (+argo city) is the last kryptonian city. not everything have to be epic and grand. GL has to be epic and grand, hell wonder woman can be epic (the direct to dvd movie and amazon attack illustrates this although amazon attack did it less justice), but superman? batman? superman should be the last son of krypton, and i can't even begin to imagine how can a batman story be epic, batman should be deeply emotional, make one think, just like the movie the dark knight (it's a great story, but it's not epic in a sense of blackest night or lord of the ring epic).

i guess i'm just a fan of doing more with less.

Groot
09-11-2009, 06:19 PM
I guess I'm curious, then... what is the Geoff Johns story that "wrote them back into being" that he can claim full credit for?

I think he had some role in helping to bring them back is what he is saying, but he wasn't the main guy who wrote them back into being, he just set the stage. I think Gibbons deserves more credit for creating some of the newer members of the Corps like Vath Sarn and Isamot Kol, but I think Geoff deserves a bit more credit for creating Soranik since it seems like he already had a plan laid out for her with Sinestro being her father and stuff.

Maverick_GL
09-11-2009, 06:31 PM
I agree to a large degree with the initial post: Adding more of something waters it down. Green Lanterns aren't so special anymore, they aren't "bearers of the most powerful weapon in the universe" anymore, they are bearers of "one of 8 most powerful weapons in the universe".

There was a time when a single GL was responsible for their entire sector. This meant they had to be the best of the best, and able to solve problems on their own. But now it seems like they can't do squat without having their partner there with them, or multiple GLs even. Yeah, sometimes in the past there were team ups, but that was only when it was absolutely necessary, not all the time.

Imagine this - Clint Eastwood in many of his old movies was a "lone cowboy" that got stuff done on his own. Yeah, he would enlist the help of some locals now and again, but by and large it was all him. If we had two, it would seem less special. If we had a whole band of him, it would be even less special and wouldn't make nearly the impact it does when it's a single man.

Another analogy can be taken from Plato/Socrates:

Pure white light is perfect. All you need is a single square (lets just say 1 inch squared) of perfect white light for it to be perfect. You don't need more of this, it doesn't make it anymore perfect. On top of that, infinite impure white light is still less perfect than a tiny piece of limited pure white light. See where I'm going with this?

More isn't always better, and in many cases, less is more.

I enjoy the Emo Corps, but I really hope when all is said and done, we see severely decreased #s of all the Corps, including the GLs.

TEN_RINGS
09-11-2009, 06:50 PM
i like how things are going with gl but there should only be one superman.. and batman is batman...i like how there are all the corps in green lantern. i know that everyone has dreamed of there being a character with a blue ring or red or whatever for years before this stuff all happened.

Andrew NDB
09-11-2009, 06:53 PM
5. The actual Green Lantern Corps were rebuilt in "Green Lantern Corps: Recharge," not Rebirth... and that was only co-written by Geoff.

I guess I'm curious, then... how is it that you require a single STORY that Geoff can take FULL writing credit for to give him the credit, yet you were perfectly willing to give the credit to others (cutting Geoff out entirely) without the benefit of that distinction? ;)

But I didn't "cut Geoff out entirely"... I acknowledge he co-wrote Recharge.

But the blanket statements, "Geoff brought back the Corps"/"We should be thankful Geoff brought back the Corps" is bullshit. Geoff has a partial stake in things, that's all.

And he's not even the one that got the ball rolling on that.

Sylent_Asassin
09-11-2009, 06:55 PM
If it makes for a good story and doesn't screw with the mythology, I'm all for it. Just think- Without Blackest Night, what would we be talking about? SCW/BN is why at least half of us are here on this forum.

superpc
09-11-2009, 06:58 PM
bravo maverick you convey my point better than i did. unless geoff and company can find more stuff to do for the other lantern (green or otherwise) i wish some of them (a lot of them) got killed (the nameless grunt, not any major ones, please don't kill saint walker or ganthet).

Orion Pax
09-11-2009, 07:08 PM
I hope the Sinestro Corps and the 7200 number of GLs stay around.

Mister Ed
09-11-2009, 07:43 PM
But I didn't "cut Geoff out entirely"... I acknowledge he co-wrote Recharge.

Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted your meaning when you said "Thank Tomasi (when he was editor) and Gibbons for that, not Geoff." That sure sounded like cutting Geoff out entirely. Surely you can see where I would get that impression from that quote, though?

But, yeah, you did later acknowledge that he co-wrote Recharge.

twoeightonefour
09-11-2009, 08:27 PM
I understand the original poster's thought that Johns has a tendancy to radically change the status quo but I don't really fault him for it. I hate the fact they make Kal-El the last Kryptonian yet continously introduce others, I was against the Loeb revival of Supergirl, at least the Kandor New Krypton has a bit more continuity. IMHO, they've been writing Superman Comics horribly for a while now so Johns going in there and expanding it doesn't really phase me. I love what he has done with GL and he got me back into reading The Flash, so I'll let him have his dozens of Kryptonians in books I don't care about. :D

Tazer
09-11-2009, 09:22 PM
Yo.

I wonder, if he ever takes over batman books, maybe he'll have batman take over leagues of shadows and make an army of batmen.

hate to ruin yur day, but there *already is* a League of Batmen.




Tazer

superpc
09-11-2009, 09:28 PM
hate to ruin yur day, but there *already is* a League of Batmen.


what league of batmen? i thought we only have batman family (you know batman, robin, etc.)

JME2
09-12-2009, 03:18 AM
If it doesn't hurt the story and makes a natural sense then I'm fine with it. That being said, I don't think Geoff Johns could write a Batman story I would enjoy.

Yeah, while he can write the character, I don't think Geoff's style is suited for the streets of Gotham and its inhabitants.

Raker616
09-12-2009, 03:35 AM
There is nothing delusional about Geoff and his writting, so I really don't get where the TS is coming from at all GL is running on all cylinders right now but it seems the more it grows the more some get their feelings hurt because of it it's weird.

Tazer
09-12-2009, 04:08 AM
Yo.

what league of batmen? i thought we only have batman family (you know batman, robin, etc.)

got the name wrong, but here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batmen_of_All_Nations




Tazer

Lantern
09-12-2009, 06:35 AM
Thank Tomasi (when he was editor) and Gibbons for that, not Geoff.

You know Geoff wrote GL: Rebirth...then even co-wrote GLC: Recharge, and yea I thank them both too.

Andrew NDB
09-12-2009, 07:45 AM
You know Geoff wrote GL: Rebirth...

So you can direct me to the point in GL: Rebirth where it brought back the Corps in any way beyond where it already was? Hal's resurrection aside?

then even co-wrote GLC: Recharge, and yea I thank them both too.

As long as you also give thanks to Joe Kelly, who brought back Oa; you give thanks to Judd Winnick, who brought back the Guardians and repowered the Central Power Battery; you give thanks to Ben Raab, who brought back Kilowog and started the Corps' march back to fulfilment; you give thanks to Peter Tomasi, who first dreamed up the restoration of the Corps and resurrection of Hal Jordan (and received Didio's backing) who picked Geoff Johns' pitch out of the many other "Bring Back Hal Jordan pitches" Tomasi solicited from several writers.

Geoff Johns' piece of the credit pie insomuch as the return of the Corps is quite small. It's there, but small.

GL Logan
09-12-2009, 07:56 AM
I really like what GJ has done with GL. To be honest, I have in the past really liked the idea of the GLC but thought that the character and stories were just boring. After reading Rebirth I changed my mind about that and happily.

As for 7200 GL's instead of 3600, well heck... the universe is a big place.

GreenLantern888
09-12-2009, 08:05 AM
I like what Geoff does to the characters and making their families bigger I like that it makes them more interesting and more characters in the books.

Groot
09-12-2009, 05:25 PM
bravo maverick you convey my point better than i did. unless geoff and company can find more stuff to do for the other lantern (green or otherwise) i wish some of them (a lot of them) got killed (the nameless grunt, not any major ones, please don't kill saint walker or ganthet).

Well there aren't a lot of Blue Lanterns anyways (and Geoff has said it will be revealed who Hal's (former) Blue Ring will select as well. So that would only leave us with 5, I hope (no pun intended) that they will all live since that would make for nice character developement in future stories, and maybe they'd become a part of the GLC and replace the Alpha Lanterns (they'd get a green ring, and the ALs are pretty powerful anyways, and have two rings as well).

GL_Nova
09-12-2009, 09:07 PM
I really don't get why people have a problem with adding to the scope of the series, or the Universe itself. I personally am loving the scope Geoff has been bringing to the DC Universe. I like the idea of each sector having 2 Lanterns. (An paresonally i see it as a way for him to explain kinda in-story why there are so many Earth GL's and keep all active w/o making it to convuluted.) As far as New Krypton, anyone can tell that when all is said an done there won't still be another planet in our Solar System, but it's a great story while there is. What's wrong with it? It's a great chance to really explore Krypton, and Kal's struggle between his Kryptonian heritage and Human upbringing in a new and exciting way. An i dunno about you, but i can't wait to see a major throw down between General Lane's forces and Zod's army. I can see a couple ways to make Batman epic. I mean Morrison an company just got done w/ it in R.I.P. and Battle for the Cowl. An i can't wait for WW to have something Epic that stics, Amazons Attack definatle not with-standing. Keep em comin Geoff.

Lantern
09-13-2009, 06:23 PM
:fight:So you can direct me to the point in GL: Rebirth where it brought back the Corps in any way beyond where it already was? Hal's resurrection aside?



As long as you also give thanks to Joe Kelly, who brought back Oa; you give thanks to Judd Winnick, who brought back the Guardians and repowered the Central Power Battery; you give thanks to Ben Raab, who brought back Kilowog and started the Corps' march back to fulfilment; you give thanks to Peter Tomasi, who first dreamed up the restoration of the Corps and resurrection of Hal Jordan (and received Didio's backing) who picked Geoff Johns' pitch out of the many other "Bring Back Hal Jordan pitches" Tomasi solicited from several writers.

Geoff Johns' piece of the credit pie insomuch as the return of the Corps is quite small. It's there, but small.

Maybe Joe Kelly, but Last Will and Testament wasn't that good. Judd and Ben, no thanks. I read their run and even re-read some of again and it wasn't that good. Sure there are key elements from them, but not all of it was crafted to shape what is currently now. Look at the idea of Ion and Parallax and what they are now. Also, are you making sure to give thanks to Alan Moore, Dave Gibbons, Martin Nodell, Bill Finger, Gil Kane, John Broome, and Julius Schwartz? Heck that list can go on. I've been reading GL for a long time, both good and bad. I'm glad for what we have now and I'm glad that we have a writer like Geoff who is excited, can take the older stuff and make it revelent, and works well with others in order to give us one of the best runs on Green Lantern. How great is it, that at conventions you see people wearing GL related items now?


Also GL: Rebirth didn't bring the corps back, you and I both know that. It did set the stage though. It got all the Earth GLs back together with Kil, it got the Guardians thinking about a GL corps. Mainly it set up the comic book franchise too. So I'm not saying him entirely, because its not. But I am saying Geoff is a good part of that. I remember the last time GL change, we lost everything for one guy. Now that is has changed, we got everything back and including that one guy too. Thats great story telling in my opinion. So go ahead and disect this how you want and lets keep going.:fight:

Lantern
09-13-2009, 06:27 PM
Also Andrew where are your sources for these? I would love to see where the info where this came from: "you give thanks to Peter Tomasi, who first dreamed up the restoration of the Corps and resurrection of Hal Jordan (and received Didio's backing) who picked Geoff Johns' pitch out of the many other "Bring Back Hal Jordan pitches" Tomasi solicited from several writers." I think it would interesting to have known who else was pitching to get Hal back. (Don't take this in an offensive way. I just love reading about behind the scenes items.)

Tazer
09-13-2009, 08:45 PM
Yo.

I agree to a large degree with the initial post: Adding more of something waters it down. Green Lanterns aren't so special anymore, they aren't "bearers of the most powerful weapon in the universe" anymore, they are bearers of "one of 8 most powerful weapons in the universe".

There was a time when a single GL was responsible for their entire sector. This meant they had to be the best of the best, and able to solve problems on their own. But now it seems like they can't do squat without having their partner there with them, or multiple GLs even. Yeah, sometimes in the past there were team ups, but that was only when it was absolutely necessary, not all the time.

ya know, I generally dont like Mav cuz hes an evil Canadian hellbent on ruling the world with cheese-spreads of various flavors (trust me, Ive looked it up!!).........but, I'll be DAMNED if the above isnt 100% TRUTH.

/highfive




Tazer

eldar
09-17-2009, 01:13 AM
Better be prepared to give most of the credit to Didio then. Without him, none of it including Rebirth would have ever gotten approved if he didn't come in determined to bring back Hal and Barry.