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  • Yo.

    I dont think the crack wouldve erased that invasion, since it was just an extension of the TARDIS blowing up; I dont think even Prisoner Zero can be blamed for her forgetting.




    Tazer


    Originally posted by Andrew NDB
    Geoff Johns should have a 10 mile restraining order from comic books, let alone films.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tazer View Post
      Yo.

      ok, so when does the Doctor discover howcum Amy knows nothing about the Dalek invasion??




      Tazer
      No one forgot, those events never happened. They were swallowed by the Crack.

      It's mentioned in The Eleventh Hour and also briefly in Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone.

      As far as I understand it from what the Doctor says about the Crack, is it's 'eating' history. So some moments have simply been swallowed up by the Crack.
      The Crack itself (as we know from the Big Bang) is the first signs of the TARDIS exploding, but rather than the usual progression of:
      ignition>bright light>shockwave>bang, we get with an incendiary explosive, the TARDIS exploding was closer to:
      TARDIS overloads>Tardis explodes>cracks appear all over time and space>cracks expand to swallow their immediate surroundings>cracks eventually expand far enough to swallow the whole universe.

      So in relation to the doctor's timeline, the result of the explosion (the Crack) occurs before the ignition.

      For whatever reason, events of the Dalek invasions have been swallowed by the crack, out of synch with the linear frame of reference we are given in the progression of that series.

      Time Travel, it's a headache, it's rarely clear until the story is over, but this is why I like it.
      Minimum space distance:
      a|<- ≥2mm ->|lot
      ----------------------------------------------------------

      Stormageddon added by Kuhan

      Comment


      • As ends of seasons go, that wasn't bad.
        We're still not that much closer to finding out who the Silence really are, besides being a religious order dedicated to preventing the first question from being asked.
        The Doctor escaping his fate by being a Tesselator - actually quite cool, but ultimately as much of a cop out as using a Flesh avatar.
        Viking thing playing chess - It really should have been Fenric
        Loved the farewell to the Brig.

        I suppose the big question is: Are Amy and Rory going to be companions in the next season. I'm guessing not, since the Doctor is now lying low and any powers-that-be will be watching the Ponds.

        What really confused me: there's going to be a new series of The Sarah Jane Adventures! I thought they hadn't made any more :s
        chivalrous
        Corps Honor Guard
        Last edited by chivalrous; 10-01-2011, 11:36 PM.
        Minimum space distance:
        a|<- ≥2mm ->|lot
        ----------------------------------------------------------

        Stormageddon added by Kuhan

        Comment


        • Okay Great ending to the season. Perfectly executed explination to what happened in the season opener. Also the ending explained everything and shows us just how damned sly the Doctor really is.

          And the question shall be asked.... Doctor Who?






          Darth_Andrea

          Comment


          • Yo.

            Originally posted by chivalrous View Post
            No one forgot, those events never happened. They were swallowed by the Crack.

            It's mentioned in The Eleventh Hour and also briefly in Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone.

            As far as I understand it from what the Doctor says about the Crack, is it's 'eating' history. So some moments have simply been swallowed up by the Crack.
            The Crack itself (as we know from the Big Bang) is the first signs of the TARDIS exploding, but rather than the usual progression of:
            ignition>bright light>shockwave>bang, we get with an incendiary explosive, the TARDIS exploding was closer to:
            TARDIS overloads>Tardis explodes>cracks appear all over time and space>cracks expand to swallow their immediate surroundings>cracks eventually expand far enough to swallow the whole universe.

            So in relation to the doctor's timeline, the result of the explosion (the Crack) occurs before the ignition.

            For whatever reason, events of the Dalek invasions have been swallowed by the crack, out of synch with the linear frame of reference we are given in the progression of that series.

            Time Travel, it's a headache, it's rarely clear until the story is over, but this is why I like it.
            if the Dalek invasion had *never* happend, then how could Doc & Amy have encountered the escapees of it back in WWII? those last few would never have been there, since they would never have been in the 1st place.

            I guess Ima need to go back & re-watch those eps, cuz this dangling plot-point is bugging da hell outta me.......

            as for the finale, Im decidedly under-impressed; its still had a good sense of quirkiness, but I didnt smile when Doc pulled off his win.
            :/




            Tazer
            Tazer
            That Evil, Yellow Bastiche
            Last edited by Tazer; 10-02-2011, 02:32 AM.


            Originally posted by Andrew NDB
            Geoff Johns should have a 10 mile restraining order from comic books, let alone films.

            Comment


            • Is it XMas yet?

              Still wanna know how River gets this

              Comment


              • She gets it just before she dies.
                [center]

                Originally posted by W.West
                DID ANYONE READ THE ARTICLE?!!!!!!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tazer View Post
                  Yo.



                  if the Dalek invasion had *never* happend, then how could Doc & Amy have encountered the escapees of it back in WWII? those last few would never have been there, since they would never have been in the 1st place. :/

                  Tazer
                  Okay, that's my fault in the way I explained it.
                  Remember when Rory died, Amy forgot Rory, but she herself wasn't reverted to a new time stream where she had never met Rory (and likely never did all the things she did that shaped her character into the Amy she is today)?
                  The same thing has happened here.
                  The even has been erased, but the rest still exists -

                  It's like the Crack is eating a candy shoe lace, it has eaten the earlier events, but hasn't quite got to the later events yet, so the Daleks still exist, even though the reason they exist doesn't exist;

                  Like the Doctor still exists but he has Amy as a Companion rather than Rose (who while the event no longer exists, is still stuck in a parallel universe).

                  When you eat a hot dog, you [normally] eat from one end to the other, the crack here is doing something similar.

                  Okay, that might not be quite right, the crack could also eat from the middle of the hotdog (timeline) but it hasn't yet eaten the beginning or the end of the hotdog (/timeline).

                  Ultimately, the timeline and physicality still exists but for some reason the memories are more fragile and are erased when that part of the timeline is eaten by the Crack.
                  I would explain that in the following way.

                  Imagine the timeline is a page in a book, with writing describing the events. If a particular moment is erased, the writing is also erased, but there needs to be something to link the timeline before the cut, to the timeline after the cut - so a straight, flat line is drawn. There are no memories here, but there is still a link between the moment before time is erased, to the moment after time is erased.

                  Or you could liken it to a heavy night out, where the Crack is ten drinks too many and you have no memory of the events of when you were inebriated.
                  Minimum space distance:
                  a|<- ≥2mm ->|lot
                  ----------------------------------------------------------

                  Stormageddon added by Kuhan

                  Comment


                  • I liked the Brig tribute and I liked the compressed time stream of the finale (Caesar Churchill), but otherwise I'm tired of these OTT season-wrapping finales.
                    I look more forward to seeing classic Who on DVD than to seeing new Who. I'd like one story that doesn't have any unanswered mystery or any ties to the rest of the bloody season.

                    Comment


                    • Brigadier was hard done by indeed.
                      Goodbye Christopher Hitchins 1949 - 2011

                      Comment


                      • Yo.

                        Originally posted by chivalrous View Post
                        Okay, that's my fault in the way I explained it.
                        Remember when Rory died, Amy forgot Rory, but she herself wasn't reverted to a new time stream where she had never met Rory (and likely never did all the things she did that shaped her character into the Amy she is today)?
                        The same thing has happened here.
                        The even has been erased, but the rest still exists
                        not quite: the Daleks the 2 encountered REMEMBERED the invasion having taken place, and that the Doctor had engineered their defeat which necessitated their escaping to prevent complete annihilation.

                        so, not did those Daleks remember the invasion, but also that Doc had wiped out the vast majority of the invasion force..............which cant be if THOSE Daleks were the only ones to have carried it out, since they wouldnt have rememberd that they had been in command of a LARGE invasion force to be wiped out.





                        Tazer


                        Originally posted by Andrew NDB
                        Geoff Johns should have a 10 mile restraining order from comic books, let alone films.

                        Comment


                        • *head asplodes* ;p
                          -Rational arguments are inherently highly ineffective against irrational beliefs.
                          -Marriage is not heterosexual privilege, but rather a civil right.

                          -"My objection to religious belief is not that it is universally harmful but, simply, that it is false."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tazer View Post
                            Yo.



                            not quite: the Daleks the 2 encountered REMEMBERED the invasion having taken place, and that the Doctor had engineered their defeat which necessitated their escaping to prevent complete annihilation.

                            so, not did those Daleks remember the invasion, but also that Doc had wiped out the vast majority of the invasion force..............which cant be if THOSE Daleks were the only ones to have carried it out, since they wouldnt have rememberd that they had been in command of a LARGE invasion force to be wiped out.


                            Tazer

                            But the Doctor makes it clear at the end of Cold Earth that time-travellers are affected differently, that with effort and concentration a time-traveller can remember events that would normally be forgotten.
                            He also mentions briefly, at the beginning of Time of Angels, that time-travellers' minds are affected in such a way to alter their perceptions.

                            Considering how obsessive the Daleks are, especially about their encounters with the Doctor, I don't think it's too much of a jump to say they had enough concentration to hold on to their memories.
                            chivalrous
                            Corps Honor Guard
                            Last edited by chivalrous; 10-03-2011, 04:31 PM.
                            Minimum space distance:
                            a|<- ≥2mm ->|lot
                            ----------------------------------------------------------

                            Stormageddon added by Kuhan

                            Comment


                            • Yo.

                              Originally posted by chivalrous View Post
                              But the Doctor makes it clear at the end of Cold Earth that time-travellers are affected differently, that with effort and concentration a time-traveller can remember events that would normally be forgotten.
                              He also mentions briefly, at the beginning of Time of Angels, that time-travellers' minds are affected in such a way to alter their perceptions.

                              Considering how obsessive the Daleks are, especially about their encounters with the Doctor, I don't think it's too much of a jump to say they had enough concentration to hold on to their memories.
                              ok, but I didnt/dont get the feeling that remembering "that which has gone on before, but now hasnt" is a conscious action, as Amy remembered all of those clerics that left her alone in that hybrid forrest (due to falling into the crack, and yet didnt remember Rory when it happend to him (and note: she'd been thru much more jumps than those Daleks had been.)

                              also, tying her lack-of-memory about the Daleks to those cracks is/was a theory he came up with, but even the Doctor has been wrong before.......


                              Originally posted by Power Ring View Post
                              *head asplodes* ;p







                              Tazer
                              Tazer
                              That Evil, Yellow Bastiche
                              Last edited by Tazer; 10-03-2011, 06:03 PM.


                              Originally posted by Andrew NDB
                              Geoff Johns should have a 10 mile restraining order from comic books, let alone films.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tazer View Post
                                Yo.



                                ok, but I didnt/dont get the feeling that remembering "that which has gone on before, but now hasnt" is a conscious action, as Amy remembered all of those clerics that left her alone in that hybrid forrest (due to falling into the crack, and yet didnt remember Rory when it happend to him (and note: she'd been thru much more jumps than those Daleks had been.)

                                also, tying her lack-of-memory about the Daleks to those cracks is/was a theory he came up with, but even the Doctor has been wrong before.......

                                Her not remembering Rory was explained by the Doctor in the same episode that Rory "died". Rory was part of her personal time-line (as well , i guess, a time-traveller himself), so her being able to recall changed events did not apply to him, being as he was from her "personal" time-line. (Don't ask, it's the explanation the show gave, and we have to run with it. )
                                -Rational arguments are inherently highly ineffective against irrational beliefs.
                                -Marriage is not heterosexual privilege, but rather a civil right.

                                -"My objection to religious belief is not that it is universally harmful but, simply, that it is false."

                                Comment

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