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Super-hero movies tend to use CGI not because it's needed but because they can. If the film makers could do something else that would cost much less and would work just as well or even better, their default mode is to use CGI.
It's stupid. They obviously think CGI itself sells movies.
I've always thought that the Hulk shouldn't be CGI. They should have found another huge bodybuilder like Lou Ferrigno and put green makeup on him. That would have saved a fortune and looked better.
A disturbing possibility is that Justice League might actually lose money.Last edited by Trey Strain; 11-21-2017, 12:54 PM.Comment
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What's convenient about that is that when the blame gets spread around, nobody gets punished.Originally posted by Hypo View PostComment
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I saw the movie on Friday at my local theater (no 3d, six screens, I can walk to it) and the theater was maybe a third at most of the way full. A lot of people were laughing at the Flash the whole time but otherwise not much fanfare.
I was disappointed, but I thought the movie could have been worse. I probably have the same gripes as anyone and thought the effects were bland, villain was bland, and overall plot was bland. I just didn't care and having Barry Allen drop jokes in every scene got old for me real quick, even if they were funny jokes.
I thought Cyborg was fine and Aquaman was OK, and wish they had never killed Superman because bringing him back was a chore to watch.Comment
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So "Justice League." All in? ALL BAD!!!
* SPOILERS *
It isn't difficult to figure out that Whedon chopped out probably an hour or more of Snyder's movie, then added about 30 minutes in (apparently more? I'm hearing even Whedon's final version was 2 hours 30 minutes before the studio said "It's gotta be TWO HOURS TOPS! We smell a flop and need to maximize profit!!!" and chopped even his cut). Every time you see Superman it's clear it was from the reshoots... because of the SUPER OBVIOUS CGI on his upper lip to hide the mustache they had to disguise because he was shooting MI6 when the reshoots were happening. I thought for sure they had it handled and it wouldn't be a big deal... but it is! Every time you see him it's like, "What the **** is going on with his face?" I don't want to see this movie ever again but I might if they fix the lip stuff because of how distracting it is. From the end of BvS to all the hubbub about the black suit and beard (Cavill teased the black suit on Twitter), it's easy to surmise that Superman was brought back to life by Steppenwolf and was evil for at least most of the movie in that version. That dirt wasn't levitating at the end of BvS because it knew Batman might think to dig up his grave a year or two later. Seems to be Whedon chopped all of that out, created the very awkward storyline with the League deciding to dig up his body and do it themselves so that Superman can be there in the final battle and he can be all savey and stuff. Aquaman amounts to nothing here, everything about who he is and the Atlanteans in Atlantis is just told in dialogue, not shown. No reason is given to care about Cyborg. Flash is funny and some of his stuff works but it's not enough (to be fair, I did like his part in this better than, say, Quicksilver in the last two X-Men movies, or Quicksilver in Avengers 2). And he is a FAKE Barry Allen. About Batman, you can also spot the reshoot stuff with him... he is noticeably quite a bit chubbier (face a lot flusher, too) in some scenes and more in line with his look in BvS in others. He also seemed to be having a lot of trouble with the material this time around. Wonder Woman is still good, though it's like between Snyder and Whedon, neither one could get a great performance out of her... her line readings here are more stilted and awkward than anything in WW and it sticks out. So much joking around and maybe only half of the jokes land. Nothing about this movie leaves you walking away thinking you got anything in the way of a coherent story or vision... even BvS is better than JL in this way. The "Nightcrawler" was lame an pointless. The "Bat Troop Carrier" isn't remarkable for anything. Final battle is disjointed... you can see the seamlines of the brutal editing (a lot of characters saying the probably newly written lines with their backs to the camera so you can't see what their lips are doing, other stuff, too, etc.). I suspect there is a metric ton of Steppenwolf stuff on the cutting room floor because he isn't anything here... a cardboard villain who literally just wants to destroy the world (I think?). I'd actually really like to see the full Snyder cut of this, if only to get a full grasp of what the original thinking was on everything and what was done, which is easily at a level of a Rogue One overhaul, maybe moreso.
Oh, and the music score is awful. All the news about Elfman is reusing his Batman theme or the Williams Superman theme... these are super brief moments to where you might go, "Hey, is that...?" but then it's gone and never heard again. Super lame. If you're going to do that, don't just tease it. No music in this movie is remotely as powerful or as moving as Zimmer's work in MoS or BvS, not by a long shot.
As much in love with old stories as Snyder was, gee, I wonder where he got the idea with for his JL duology, then. Could it be this man?
Of course it fucking is. When Geoff Johns' own New 52 "Justice League: Origin" is (which is CLEARLY the basis for this movie, either version of it) is only like 4 years old. Just like with the GL movie (in which he was heavily involved and held full creative veto power), though, Geoff has so many angles and people to hide behind. "It was Snyder's fault! N-n-n-obody liked BvS even though I was involved with that one, too!" or "I-I-I tried to help Whedon but by then I could only help so much!"
That sniveling little weasel. Hopefully he goes down with the ship this time. He wishes he was Kevin Feige but he is NOT Kevin Feige.Comment
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Justice League is projected to lose $50-$100M. If I were in charge of that situation, some heads would roll. But I'll be surprised if any do, since none rolled over Green Lantern.
https://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...on-Warner-BrosComment
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This is who is responsible. Let's see whether there will be any repercussions for them.
Director: Zack Snyder
Screenwriters: Chris Terrio, Joss Whedon; story by Chris Terrio, Zack Snyder
Producers: Charles Roven, Deborah Snyder, Jon Berg, Geoff JohnsLast edited by Trey Strain; 11-26-2017, 02:14 AM.Comment
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I saw Justice League a few days ago on a matinee with my 11 year old nephew. The movie I saw I would best describe as a hot mess. I would grade it as a solid D+.
I won't buy it on bluray/DVD, and I will likely never see it again. My hope is, that now that this is done, WB and Zack Snyder part ways on their super hero line, and WB starts making movies the quality of Wonder Woman.
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Yo.
https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-i...green-lantern/
Justice League: Identity of the Green Lantern Possibly Revealed
Tazer
Originally posted by Andrew NDBComment
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I'm buying what he's selling. Seems very likely that was the GL of times past they were gong for.Originally posted by Tazer View PostComment
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Geoff Johns will be a producer of not just one but two of the top 15 money losers of all time.
Who in their right mind would let him produce another movie?
http://www.clipd.com/stories/1842/15...lost-millions/Last edited by Trey Strain; 11-29-2017, 09:04 PM.Comment
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The Wrap: How ‘Justice League’ Became a ‘Frankenstein’
“Justice League” had a lot of enemies: a looming corporate merger, a family tragedy, an internal clash between light and dark. But its greatest enemy was time.
Few people are happy with the finished project, which one insider called “a Frankenstein” made of the assembled parts favored by rotating executives and directors. But several people who spoke to TheWrap said the decision to keep the film’s Nov. 17 release date was a mistake — one as plain as Superman’s face.
Specifically, the weird, computer-generated look of his face — just one byproduct of the film’s rushed schedule. Here, according to insiders, is the story of how “Justice League” just ran out of time.
The Dark Knight
Despite the assembled might of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Aquaman, and The Flash, “Justice League” had Warner Bros.’ worst opening for a DC Comics-based movie in years. It’s easy to forget now, but the disappointment of “Justice League” began with success.
When Christopher Nolan completed his celebrated “Dark Knight” trilogy, a hyperreal re-imagining of Batman, Warner Bros. hoped he would turn next to rebooting Superman.
But Nolan opted out, instead supporting Zack Snyder to direct the Superman reboot “Man of Steel.” Like the Snyders, Nolan and his wife, producer Emma Thomas, made films together. They were about the same age. They got along.
Snyder seemed like a good fit. He had directed the comics adaptations “Watchmen” and the surprise hit “300,” the latter of which was inspired by the work of Frank Miller, who reinvented Batman with the 1980s stories “Year One” and “The Dark Knight Returns.”
Snyder appears to have enjoyed as much freedom in his vision of the DC Universe as Nolan had enjoyed with his Batman films. He answered to Greg Silverman, the Warner Bros. executive who guided hits like “The Dark Knight,” “The Hangover” and “300.” In 2013, Silverman was named Warner Bros. president, reporting directly to Warner Bros. CEO Kevin Tsujihara.
An individual with deep knowledge of the studio said Silverman didn’t read offer notes on Snyder’s scripts. Another described Silverman’s attitude as “remarkably laissez faire.”
These qualities might have been praised if Snyder’s films were universally loved: Executives are usually criticized for meddling too much, not too little. No one complained that Nolan had too much freedom on “The Dark Knight.”
Silverman declined to comment.
Man of Steel
Snyder’s nihilistic tone may have made sense for Batman, a vigilante driven by grim determination. But many fans found it jarring for Superman, a character known for hope and optimism. When Superman broke an enemy’s neck at the end of 2013’s “Man of Steel,” many purists felt that Snyder had misunderstood the hero entirely, believing he would never stoop to the level of his evil adversaries.
The sequel, 2016’s “Batman v Superman,” was even darker. One insider called it “the darkest of the dark of the dark.” What could be darker than Superman killing? How about Superman dying? “Batman v Superman” ended with him in the grave.
“Batman v Superman” had scored the second-highest opening of 2016, behind only “Captain America: Civil War.” But the buzz was bad: After its $166 million opening weekend, second weekend totals dropped 69 percent to $51 million. Soon after, “Suicide Squad” disappointed with another grim, dystopian vision of the DC Universe.
“This just goes to show you how much the brand has eroded since ‘Batman v Superman.’ That was supposed to be the precursor to something even more momentous, but that never ended up happening because of how badly ‘BvS’ performed. The word of mouth has just been toxic,” said Jeff Bock, Senior Box Office Analyst at Exhibitor Relations.
After the disappointment of “Batman v Superman,” the individual with deep knowledge of Warner Bros. said studio executives repeatedly went to Silverman to suggest removing Snyder from “Justice League.” The individual said DC President Jon Berg was sent to the set for the better part of a year to oversee the production out of budget concerns.
Warner Bros. declined comment for this story.
The insider said Silverman was “quite harsh on Zack” when “Batman v Superman” underwhelmed audiences. But he didn’t fire him: Removing a director is a major distraction on any film, and it would be a sign of serious trouble on a tentpole designed to support a larger universe.
“They were already in deep prep on ‘Justice League’ and it would have cost a fortune. There’s stickiness to a director because there’s so much cost to unstick him,” the insider said. “Warners is a studio that almost to a fault always wants to project strength.”
Asked who ultimately decided to keep Snyder on, the insider said: “It wasn’t Greg’s decision. This was all happening on a Tsujihara level.”
In December, Silverman stepped down as president of Warner Bros. Pictures, and was replaced by Toby Emmerich.
Light v. Dark
This is the part comic-book fans probably might not care about, but it’s crucial: In October of 2016, Warner Bros. announced plans to merge with AT&T, and the companies began sizing up each other’s assets and liabilities.
Moving the date of a tentpole film like “Justice League” could have projected weakness. A hit would project strength. And Warner Bros. expected a hit.
The studio had become vocal about wanting “Justice League” to have a light tone, like the one director Joss Whedon had struck for rival Disney’s Marvel Universe blockbuster superhero team-up “The Avengers.” Whedon was enlisted, with Snyder’s blessing, to help add some levity and fun to the script for “Justice League.”
In the spring, while Snyder and Warner Bros. were engaged in a push-pull over the right amount of light and darkness in “Justice League,” true tragedy struck.
Zack and Deborah Snyder’s daughter died by suicide.
At first, an insider said, the director’s plan was that “work was gonna be kind of a refuge.”
But then it wasn’t. Snyder was under added pressure because Warner Bros. was embracing “the lighter, different, more confectionary ideas of Joss,” the insider said. “It stopped being a good situation on any level.”
And so in May, Snyder left “Justice League” to focus on his family, and, eventually, a more personal project, the film “Last Photograph,” with Warners’ support.
And Whedon took over the project.
But time was running out.
The Merger and the Mustache
Soon after Snyder left “Justice League,” Warner Bros. got another sign that its movies didn’t have to be bleak: Patty Jenkin’s “Wonder Woman” shook off Snyder’s violent, monochromatic vision of the DC Universe with a fun, uplifting lead character, winning critical praise and performing above expectations at the box office.
Whedon had to choose between continuing Snyder’s vision or lightening up “Justice League” as much as he could.
Or at least, as much as he could by Nov. 17.
Scheduling was intense: “Superman” actor Henry Cavill, on loan from shooting “Mission: Impossible 6” for Paramount, was not allowed to shave a mustache he had grown for that film, so “Justice League” was forced to remove it digitally. Fans would later complain that his face looked weird.
One executive told TheWrap Tsujihara and Emmerich “wanted to preserve their bonuses they would be paid before the merger,” and were worried that “if they pushed the movie, then their bonuses would have been pushed to the following year and they might not still be at the studio.”
Another knowledgable insider said that at the highest levels of Warner Bros., bonuses are awarded “for making good decisions.” If delaying a film is the right decision, an executive could be rewarded for it.
Frankenstein
The final version of “Justice League,” a compromise between Snyder’s vision and Whedon’s, left few people completely satisfied. (TheWrap’s Phil Owen recently studied the finished film to guess how much of the final vision belonged to each director.)
“I think Warner Bros. biggest misstep was not pushing the release of ‘Justice League’ when Snyder had to step aside,” the executive told TheWrap.
More than 100,000 fans agreed, by signing a petition calling on Warners to release Snyder’s version of the film.
But audiences weren’t wild about Snyder’s last pure Snyder film, either. For now, his rein over DC movies is over.
Matt Reeves is currently writing and steering “The Batman,” Jenkins recently closed a deal to return on the “Wonder Woman” sequel, to be set during the Cold War, and “Shazam” is under the guidance of “Lights Out” filmmaker David F. Sandberg.
Who can lead Warner Bros. out of the dark waters?
Aquaman, the studio hopes. The film, directed by James Wan, is due for release next December.
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Frankenstein’s MONSTER! JL became Frankenstein’s MONSTER!
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Re Johns, Wonder Woman is an incident. Green Lantern, BvS, Suicide Squad and Justice League are a patternLast edited by Trey Strain; 11-30-2017, 09:44 AM.Comment
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