Digital Comics and the Longbox

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

Check elsewhere buddy. You'll find a shitload of people onboard with this thing.

[Limelantern Better than both the Salami and the Bologna combined Find all posts View Profile Close Limelantern]

Do yourself a favor and read the two articles I posted at the start of the topic and then tell me about that con over pros shit. Then tell me about when and where you heard of scrolling because that's something they don't want.

Yea I read it, and they didn't go into that at all. So if you are the expert here then you tell me, How the hell am I supposed to read a gigantic splash page without scrolling at all? Go buy a magnifying glass to read all the tiny print all over the screen? Or just buy a 28" or larger monitor?

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

You know what, I don't care. I just find it embarrassing that people are this adamant against change. a GOOD change. Its fucking pathetic.

[Limelantern Better than both the Salami and the Bologna combined Find all posts View Profile Close Limelantern]

..oh, so you can't explain that huh............




...thought so........

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

Why would I be able to explain something I just learned about through the same fucking article you did? I'm only basing my thoughts on what we both know. That they don't want to have scrolling, that the screenshots of the Longbox don't show any scrolls, that the screens we see are pretty readable and allow for further zooming.

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

You know what, I don't care. I just find it embarrassing that people are this adamant against change. a GOOD change. Its fucking pathetic.

Man are you coming across arrogant. People don't like something as much as you do, and they are pathetic. I don't even disagree with you in the same way as some others here, yet I'm reluctant to point out where I DO agree, because you are being so darned childish about the whole thing.

I think it is somewhat odd that you think this is good, yet somehow feel like it is necessary to argue that there is NO downside at all. LCSs won't be adversely effected if digital comics are successful? Of course they will. To argue otherwise makes you seem detached from reality. You would be better served making the argument that, even IF LCSs are hurt, it is better for the industry as a whole, and for the consumer, in the long run. A lot of people won't agree with that, but there is a rational case to be made there, a case I would probably be inclined to agree with, at least on some levels.

And to just reject people's complaints about reading in a digital format as if they are stupid, or worse, dishonest? Not making your case well there, either.

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

One thing I would likely use this for, if I could, would be for big crossover events like Blackest Night that I am following as they come out. Not for the main issues, but as a means of inexpensively keeping up with various tie-ins DURING the event that I wouldn't necessarily buy. Like, during SCW, had something like this been available, I would have read the Blue Beetle tie-in like that for $1 instead of buying it.

[lanternut Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close lanternut]

If the publisher where smart they'd see it the same way. You might get new reader that have never picked Titans or any other book.
Have links that you could find LCS or book stores wouldn't be bad either.

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

Man are you coming across arrogant. People don't like something as much as you do, and they are pathetic. I don't even disagree with you in the same way as some others here, yet I'm reluctant to point out where I DO agree, because you are being so darned childish about the whole thing.

I think it is somewhat odd that you think this is good, yet somehow feel like it is necessary to argue that there is NO downside at all. LCSs won't be adversely effected if digital comics are successful? Of course they will. To argue otherwise makes you seem detached from reality. You would be better served making the argument that, even IF LCSs are hurt, it is better for the industry as a whole, and for the consumer, in the long run. A lot of people won't agree with that, but there is a rational case to be made there, a case I would probably be inclined to agree with, at least on some levels.

And to just reject people's complaints about reading in a digital format as if they are stupid, or worse, dishonest? Not making your case well there, either.

1. I'm not calling any of you pathetic, I think your blatant resistance to the digital format is just saddening.

2. That's not arrogance. That's called believing in something.

3. I'm not saying there's no downfall or negatives about this. What I am trying to get across to you all is that some of the reasons for your worry can be avoided by YOURSELVES. The reasons why CD stores went out of business is because people stopped going. Not because it became extremely expensive to print off albums, but because people would rather get their music on their home computers. If you take that mindset into the Longbox then of course the comic shops are going to suffer. But if you continue to go out there and support, then why wouldn't they stick around. People tend to forget that the music industry was(is) suffering from ILLEGAL downloading not just digital sales increasing. Its not solely iTunes and other digital marketplaces fault for the loss of your precious music shops. Its illegal file sharing and downloading that did them in. If anything, iTunes helped slow down the ratio of illegal downloads because some(I won't say most because I have no figures) of those people who are downloading illegally are doing so because they can't afford what they want to get. So why not apply that logic to comic books? Why not have a marketplace for comics and graphic novels where we can buy at home and still support our favorite publishers? No one is stopping you from turning away from the computer screen and walk to the comic shop. If you are so against digital comic shops, then continue going to the LCS and paying that $3.99 to keep those places in tact. I will. But I know I'll be buying a lot more comics digitally because I'm not scared of reading comics on the screen. Its never been about holding a book. Its always been about the story, the characters, the art and the page turn. ALL of which will still be available to use through the digital market.

And the whole, dishonesty thing...I still find it hard to believe that you or anyone else really have that bad of a time reading a preview. Seriously, its not that big of a problem, but if its that big of a deal to you then fine. Just don't talk shit about digital comics like its inferior because I have to scroll. I would be an asshole to say that a printed comic is shit because your paying four dollars for something I paid a dollar for and got the same experience, right?

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

Why would I be able to explain something I just learned about through the same fucking article you did? I'm only basing my thoughts on what we both know. That they don't want to have scrolling, that the screenshots of the Longbox don't show any scrolls, that the screens we see are pretty readable and allow for further zooming.

Zooming WITHOUT scrolling is kind of a step back. I mean, viewing pdf previews in Acrobat I could already shrink the pages to fit my screen and zoom in whenever and wherever I wanted. I just also had the option to scroll the zoomed image. I fail to see how eliminating the scroll option is an improvement.

I give them full marks for making the best of a less than ideal situation, but when it comes right down to it, the problems of viewing comics on a monitor can't be solved by software. They can only REALLY be solved either by hardware- having a monitor big enough to view standard pages full-size- or by a decision by the publisher to reformat comics to fit full size on a standard monitor. Either works fine for me, but I can't afford to buy a bigger monitor, so for the time being, I'll be scrolling (or zooming in different spots, depending on the interface) when I read any comics digitally. Which I can deal with when I have to, but which will never be less than annoying.

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

1. I'm not calling any of you pathetic, I think your blatant resistance to the digital format is just saddening.

Well, it seems like splitting hairs. You used the word pathetic in relation to the views expressed.

2. That's not arrogance. That's called believing in something.

If you say so. I've known a lot of people able to believe in something without being so dismissive and condescending to those that don't share their beliefs.

3. I'm not saying there's no downfall or negatives about this. What I am trying to get across to you all is that some of the reasons for your worry can be avoided by YOURSELVES. The reasons why CD stores went out of business is because people stopped going. Not because it became extremely expensive to print off albums, but because people would rather get their music on their home computers. If you take that mindset into the Longbox then of course the comic shops are going to suffer. But if you continue to go out there and support, then why wouldn't they stick around. People tend to forget that the music industry was(is) suffering from ILLEGAL downloading not just digital sales increasing. Its not solely iTunes and other digital marketplaces fault for the loss of your precious music shops. Its illegal file sharing and downloading that did them in. If anything, iTunes helped slow down the ratio of illegal downloads because some(I won't say most because I have no figures) of those people who are downloading illegally are doing so because they can't afford what they want to get. So why not apply that logic to comic books? Why not have a marketplace for comics and graphic novels where we can buy at home and still support our favorite publishers? No one is stopping you from turning away from the computer screen and walk to the comic shop. If you are so against digital comic shops, then continue going to the LCS and paying that $3.99 to keep those places in tact. I will. But I know I'll be buying a lot more comics digitally because I'm not scared of reading comics on the screen. Its never been about holding a book. Its always been about the story, the characters, the art and the page turn. ALL of which will still be available to use through the digital market.

Yeah, its all about fear. Can you get any more playground? "You're chicken!" Nobody could possibly have any LEGITIMATE reasons for preferring hardcopy.

And to argue that the LCS will only suffer if we make them suffer by dropping hardcopy for digital? Duh! That's pretty obvious. And it is also obvious that, if digital comics gain widespread popularity that is exactly what will happen. Like I said, I'm not convinced that's entirely a bad thing for the industry, but it does seem like a natural consequence. To pretend that somehow enough people would buy much more expensive hardcopy (even assuming the prices DIDN'T go up, it would still be much more expensive than the digital copy) to keep the stores in business is somewhat unbelievable, and to imply that those that switched to the cheaper format would be to "blame"? Nobody would be to "blame" per se, since it isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it would be somewhat unnatural to "blame" people for choosing to cut their comics budget by more than half, if digital comics provide the same experience.

And the whole, dishonesty thing...I still find it hard to believe that you or anyone else really have that bad of a time reading a preview. Seriously, its not that big of a problem, but if its that big of a deal to you then fine. Just don't talk shit about digital comics like its inferior because I have to scroll. I would be an asshole to say that a printed comic is shit because your paying four dollars for something I paid a dollar for and got the same experience, right?

No, you'd be honest. I'd probably say the same thing (slightly different wording), IF it was the same experience. That's been my point all along, that if digital comics could give me the same experience, I would find it silly to pay 3 times (or more) the price to get a hardcopy. And I actually will be kind of surprised if they don't find a way to do just that pretty soon here. But right now, it doesn't, at least not for me. If I had a bigger monitor, or a laptop, it might come really CLOSE (maybe close enough), but I don't, so it doesn't. For me. Even as it is, if the comics I want were available, I might suck it up and buy them digitally anyway, just to save the money. You act like if anybody expresses ANY dissatisfaction with the digital format, that they are saying that they can't stomach it without vomiting on their screen. I can't speak for others here, but for me it is nothing that severe, simply annoying. And will always BE annoying until I can either see standard format comics full-size on the screen, or the comics are formatted to fit a standard screen.

[Limelantern Better than both the Salami and the Bologna combined Find all posts View Profile Close Limelantern]

I cannot see how any software could solve the scroll problem either. So it's buy a larger monitor or scroll around the page missing a word box or two.

[lanternut Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close lanternut]

What about an auto scroll feature that goes from panel to panel and auto sizes each panel to your monitor size?
I have presentation software we use when where getting presenting proofs to our clients via webex.
You can even set how long each image is shown. That way you can sit and read without hitting buttons to continue.

[DEMONXER0 Corpse Trainee Find all posts View Profile Close DEMONXER0]

I like the concept, and it makes for a fine theory, but in practice I can see a number of ways it would fail.

Example: This new service starts, and all of a sudden there are tons of people that are now interested in these digital comics. (Keep in mind, several of these people are not going to figure out that they can go buy these at their LCS, or even worse, do not have a local LCS.) So they start reading these and paying $0.99 an issue, but then, on some random forum discussing this service, someone mentions that they downloaded the exact same thing someplace else for free.

Suddenly there is a mass exodus of people that want the comic, but don't want to pay for it. Sure, there will still be a few that are devout followers of the law and still pay for them via this service, but a huge majority will give it up for the free version, even if they lose some of the extras, simply because it is free.

So the comics industry, that had made calculations and projected earnings based on these people that left all of a sudden lose out, and take a huge profit hit. Heck, depending on how fast it happens, they may not even make enough back to support the amount they invested in this service in the first place. Sure, it doesn't cost much to scan a comic, but it does take time, time that some paid employee is going to have to spend sitting there scanning these in. If not an employee, then they will have to make a machine to do it, which in the long run would be cheaper, but if there is no long run, then it ends up costing them even more.

If they can manage to get this service off the ground with little to no investment, then yes, it could be great, and maybe even the shot in the arm the comics industry needed, but if not (and chances are the "if not" is more likely) then they will be out that much more money, not to mention a loss of investors, public confidence, and an overall loss of profit that would do more damage than good.

But it could work, provided they actually think it through and can manage to do so cheaply.

I like the idea of buying a digital comic rather than a hard copy for all the crossover stuff. I hate the times we have been told something is going to only take place in one or two books and then they spread it out over every title they publish.

Overall though, I guess time will tell. I hope it does well, and I hope that it ends up being a viable option for bringing in more readers.

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

Everyone who buys from iTunes or any other digital music service realizes there is an illegal way of downloading this same product. Its still doing rather well I'd say. I don't think that the idea of illegal comics is new and would cause such a major drop in digital sales by word of mouth. If Longbox is successful then of course we'll start to see a rise in illegal digital comics but that shouldn't hurt the sales too much.