GL: Emerald Warriors #10 *Spoilers*

[Knuckles Corps Honor Guard Find all posts View Profile Close Knuckles]

Yo.

my biggest prob w/this ish was: exactly Y was it necessary for them to crack its shell? Y didnt they just GO INTO THE CPB and drag 'llax out??

its not like it hasnt been done b4...........





Tazer

Safety protocols >_>

[Thaal Jordan Green Lantern Initiate Find all posts View Profile Close Thaal Jordan]

Controling two rings is really about being able to balance the two emotions that are in check.

Just because Love and Rage are on opposite ends of the spectrum doesn't mean that their power aren't compatible. IIRC all that has been said on the comic is that the further from the "center", the more control the emotion exerts over the USER. That means that both "extreme" emotions are vieing "extremely" for control of Guy...meaning that there is a tenuous and conflicted "balance" in play.

Do you even realize how ridiculous that sounds? It's like saying if Superman is pulling your right arm, and the incredible Hulk is pulling your left arm in the other direction, that you wouldn't split into two. Or at the very least, you won't get your arms torn off because of the "conflicted balance in play". It's THAT absurd. Or if two different entities/spirits/whatever possess you at the same time and are fighting for control over you inside your body, you would still have complete control of your self because they "balance" each other out. It will NEVER make any sense. No matter how short the stint was.

And you're wrong about how controlling two rings is simply just "being able to keep both emotions in check". The mind is also a factor in controlling and using the rings. So given the degree of difficulty and the huge amount of risk involved in controlling just one of the said rings (Red and Violet), the logical thing that would've happened is:

- one of the two Rings win control over Guy
- one or both of Guy's hands get blown off
- Guy's head gets blown off
- Guy becomes a vegetable (or insane)


In other words, SOMETHINGS GOTTA GIVE. Controlling both those rings at the same time is nonsense at its finest.

[TheHorseman Green Lantern Initiate Find all posts View Profile Close TheHorseman]

Do you even realize how ridiculous that sounds? It's like saying if Superman is pulling your right arm, and the incredible Hulk is pulling your left arm in the other direction, that you wouldn't split into two. Or at the very least, you won't get your arms torn off because of the "conflicted balance in play". It's THAT absurd. Or if two different entities/spirits/whatever possess you at the same time and are fighting for control over you inside your body, you would still have complete control of your self because they "balance" each other out. It will NEVER make any sense. No matter how short the stint was.

Okay for starters I suggest you develop some kind of notion of Physics before making yourself look stupid.

I studied enough math, physics and chemistry over 8 years and two bachelors degrees to be able to be able to distinguish between a "mechanics" (the childish example you proposed) and "energy" (which what I suggested).

Leaving Quantum Mechanics and Heisenberg aside so that we don't turn this into a "particle-wave" debate, which you will likely lose and look stupid in, how about you consider that matter can be under the influence of countless types of energy or forces at any given time such as: gravitational, electromagnetic, radiation, electrostatic, frictional, quantum, etc...and guess what Einstein...ALL AT THE SAME TIME AND WHILE AT REST. So in the "real world"...it not only exists, its been scientifically proven by people more qualified than me and most certainly more qualified than you.

Second of all, we are talking about "fictional" sources of energy so who are you to claim that their behaviour has to follow a ridiculously outdated Newtonian model?

And you're wrong about how controlling two rings is simply just "being able to keep both emotions in check". The mind is also a factor in controlling and using the rings. So given the degree of difficulty and the huge amount of risk involved in controlling just one of the said rings (Red and Violet), the logical thing that would've happened is:

Funny, you use the word "logical" but haven't got a damm clue do you?

The human mind has been compared to, and not so-recently at that, to a quantum computer due its yet untapped processing power...ever hear that saying about so how we only use a small percentage of our brains? Maybe the "fictional" humans in the DCU use a little bit more...can your limited intellect make that jump?

Or how about you conisder that the average human being deals with any number of emotions at any given time? You can't be "happy" at one thing and "angry" at another, yet channel both emotions into your actions? Or how about we get "emotional spectrum" on the matter...a warrior defending a loved one can't channel the "love" and "rage" for his enemy in battle? Really?

- one of the two Rings win control over Guy

Didn't happen that way did it? Maybe because if you were to consider the emtiona as vectorial opposites of one another, yet having the same "scalar" intensity, you end up the different emotions alternating between their control, thus creating a variant of "perpetual motion" which goes against the laws of Thermodynamics, but since its a "fictional" world, that could be forgiven

- one or both of Guy's hands get blown off

Oh really? I'm assuming your thesis is that this has something to with the emotional struggle tapping into something like "Zero Point Energy", or a quantum singularity created in the cofined space around one of his hands.......or is that just something you saw on a Power Rangers re-run?

- Guy's head gets blown off

Yeah that makes a lot of sense....if you had said he'd start bleeding from the eyes, nose and ears...or even had a stroke because he over-extered his brain, at least that would have had some merit based on scientific merit from a neurological point of view....but you just had to go the cartoon route right?

- Guy becomes a vegetable (or insane)

Oh look....something that actually makes some sense....yes...if the conflict in his brain was significant enough to do a decent amount of neural damage, a vegetative stae is not only possible but I'd even say "likely"...however, the writers haven't delved into the inner working of the other Corps rings as to how they interect on a biological level with the bearer. We know the green ring confers some level of protection to its wielder...but who's to say if the same can be said about the other "colors".

In other words, SOMETHINGS GOTTA GIVE. Controlling both those rings at the same time is nonsense at its finest.

No...NOTHING HAS TO GIVE....anyone with even a superficial notion of science knows that you can echeive balance with different kinds of energies. It forms the basis under which electrical, hydraulic and pressurized systems are built on. Obviously on a molecular or quantum level, that which we percieve as balance is in fact a constant state atomic level interactions.

Wanting a "fictional" world to obey your misplaced notion of science is what is truly "nonsense at its finest".

Come back when you have even a minor grasp of scientific principles...

Have a nice day!

[Thaal Jordan Green Lantern Initiate Find all posts View Profile Close Thaal Jordan]

Okay for starters I suggest you develop some kind of notion of Physics before making yourself look stupid.

I studied enough math, physics and chemistry over 8 years and two bachelors degrees to be able to be able to distinguish between a "mechanics" (the childish example you proposed) and "energy" (which what I suggested).

Leaving Quantum Mechanics and Heisenberg aside so that we don't turn this into a "particle-wave" debate, which you will likely lose and look stupid in, how about you consider that matter can be under the influence of countless types of energy or forces at any given time such as: gravitational, electromagnetic, radiation, electrostatic, frictional, quantum, etc...and guess what Einstein...ALL AT THE SAME TIME AND WHILE AT REST. So in the "real world"...it not only exists, its been scientifically proven by people more qualified than me and most certainly more qualified than you.

Second of all, we are talking about "fictional" sources of energy so who are you to claim that their behaviour has to follow a ridiculously outdated Newtonian model?

LMAO! First of all, you could brag about what you studied all you want, but I don't give a rats ass. Go boast to someone who actually cares. Now, do you really think that by throwing alot of random scientific things that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH EMOTION will make you look smart and correct? LOLZ.

On top of that, NONE of the examples you gave involved a human in the equation that is being attacked by two completely opposite energies/forces and was still able to achieve balance and complete control of the energies/forces attacking them so GTFO!

You know what's even more funny? You yourself just said that we are talking about "fictional" sources of energy and yet you still went ahead with the scientific crap route. Do you realize how idiotic and laughable you sound right now?

Funny, you use the word "logical" but haven't got a damm clue do you?

The human mind has been compared to, and not so-recently at that, to a quantum computer due its yet untapped processing power...ever hear that saying about so how we only use a small percentage of our brains? Maybe the "fictional" humans in the DCU use a little bit more...can your limited intellect make that jump?

Or how about you conisder that the average human being deals with any number of emotions at any given time? You can't be "happy" at one thing and "angry" at another, yet channel both emotions into your actions? Or how about we get "emotional spectrum" on the matter...a warrior defending a loved one can't channel the "love" and "rage" for his enemy in battle? Really?

Again, LOLZ. I really don't get what point you're trying to make here when you're OBVIOUSLY agreeing with me that the mind is also included in the equation of being able to successfully control the rings by bringing up the mind-computer comparison. You were the one who said that controlling the rings is simply being able to keep both emotions in check. And I countered by saying that it's not as simple as that and that the mind is also included. *Realization in 3-2-1.... BOOM!!!!!!!* Do you see how stupid you just made yourself look again? It's funny as hell that you made a rebuttal by agreeing with the one your debating with. But what's even more funnier is that you thought that you just owned them! Seriously, LMAO! You are comedic gold!

And I NEVER said that it's impossible for a person to feel two different types of emotion at the same time so what the fuck are you talking about and where the hell did you get that idea, Einstein? Again, L-O-L! Where the hell do you come up with all these IRRELEVANT and IMMATERIAL crap?!? Are you sure you're on the right message board LMAO!

[Thaal Jordan Green Lantern Initiate Find all posts View Profile Close Thaal Jordan]

Didn't happen that way did it? Maybe because if you were to consider the emtiona as vectorial opposites of one another, yet having the same "scalar" intensity, you end up the different emotions alternating between their control, thus creating a variant of "perpetual motion" which goes against the laws of Thermodynamics, but since its a "fictional" world, that could be forgiven.

Forgiven my ass. Again, you say "fictional" and yet bring up crap like "Scalar intensity". LOLERZ! You really are funny. Again I really have to ask, do you even realize just how totally stupid you're sounding right now? So please keep all the IRRELEVANT and IMMATERIAL stuff out next time mmmkay? What a waste.

Oh really? I'm assuming your thesis is that this has something to with the emotional struggle tapping into something like "Zero Point Energy", or a quantum singularity created in the cofined space around one of his hands.......or is that just something you saw on a Power Rangers re-run?

Zero point what now? LMAO at all these IRRELEVANT and IMMATERIAL words and ideas being thrown around out of nowhere. And if you truly had any bit of intelligence at all, then you would've instantly realized that THAT theory was based and derived from Ganthet's hand being blown off due to him exerting so much will to remain in control of the ring and push the ring to its limits. You know, kinda like what Guy was doing when he was trying to break the CPB? Its just that, you know, I thought that the logical thing to do in this instance was to base theories and arguments on what was previously shown and established since this was a "fictional" world and all. And not simply pulling shit out of my ass and throwing it around in the hopes that I win by default due to people getting afraid to be hit by shit. Do you get it now Mr. I-Use-Alot-Of-Irrelevant-Scientific-Stuff-Therefore-I-Win-The-Argument?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense....if you had said he'd start bleeding from the eyes, nose and ears...or even had a stroke because he over-extered his brain, at least that would have had some merit based on scientific merit from a neurological point of view....but you just had to go the cartoon route right?

Yep, you got me there. I chose to go the cartoon route because guess what? This is a freaking comic LMAO! Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber Lloyd, you totally prove me wrong!

Oh look....something that actually makes some sense....yes...if the conflict in his brain was significant enough to do a decent amount of neural damage, a vegetative stae is not only possible but I'd even say "likely"...however, the writers haven't delved into the inner working of the other Corps rings as to how they interect on a biological level with the bearer. We know the green ring confers some level of protection to its wielder...but who's to say if the same can be said about the other "colors".

At least it would still be a helluva lot more plausible and logical than your "conflicting balance" crap. Balance my ass.

No...NOTHING HAS TO GIVE....anyone with even a superficial notion of science knows that you can echeive balance with different kinds of energies. It forms the basis under which electrical, hydraulic and pressurized systems are built on. Obviously on a molecular or quantum level, that which we percieve as balance is in fact a constant state atomic level interactions.

Among the countless irrelevant crap examples you gave, I still didn't see the part where you give an example where a human is included in the equation and emotions are involved. Or at the very least, an example where a human was able to control perfectly two completely opposite energies/forces that is attacking him/her. So STFUkayplzthx.

So until there's a device that could accurately measure a persons emotion at any given time, and unless you can finally give me a real example of a human being measured to have EQUAL HATE AND LOVE AT THE SAME TIME, please refrain from giving irrelevant and immaterial scientific examples ever again mmmkay FrankEinstein?

[TheHorseman Green Lantern Initiate Find all posts View Profile Close TheHorseman]

Okay here's the deal...I gotta apologize, not for what I said but HOW I said it...you argued your point and I took the way you initially said it somewhat pesonally and blew things way out of proportion by insulting and belittleing your intelligence.

I am genuinely sorry for that...even ay my age I have a bout of childshnes from time to time.

So rather than try to force my idea on you, I wanna try to understand yours, if you'll indulge me by answering a few questions:

1) you say Guy is being attacked by the emotions of the rings, now we've seen that the Red ring exerts a lot of influence over the user, making them seem almost vampiric in their behaviour...but can the same be said of the Sapphire? I can`t recall seeing any signs of the Sapphire Ring influencing the user to same degree of emotional control as the red.

2) Depending on your answer above, should any of the rings have been more dominant over Guy? Does his previous exposure to it make it forseeable hat he has a resistance to the influence or would the lingering red left from the Blackest NIght that was never fully removed make him more suceptible? Which ring should have logically had the advantage?

3) Your point about Ganthet's ring exploding holds a lot of water...but would it be too much of a stretch for Humans, being emotional creatures, being more adpet at handling their influence and power rather than a member of a race that was bred/conditioned no to feel anything?

[Thaal Jordan Green Lantern Initiate Find all posts View Profile Close Thaal Jordan]

Okay here's the deal...I gotta apologize, not for what I said but HOW I said it...you argued your point and I took the way you initially said it somewhat pesonally and blew things way out of proportion by insulting and belittleing your intelligence.

I am genuinely sorry for that...even ay my age I have a bout of childshnes from time to time.

Okay, before anything else, I would just like to say that I still actually caught your previous post (before this new one) and was in the middle of my reply when I got bored typing so I decided to browse other topics on the forum for a bit before returning to finish my post. Until I then noticed that your post, the one which I was supposed to be replying to, have now disappeared. I wasn't sure at first whether you deleted it yourself or a Mod deleted it. Nor was I sure if I should still continue replying to your message and go post it afterwards. But since it's now clear that you personally deleted it and have also taken the time to apologize, I must commend you. It takes a real man to apologize for ones mistake, yes even on the internet where no would really know if someone is being sincere or not. But the effort alone of apologizing is tough to do for some people for whatever reason so kudos to you.

So rather than try to force my idea on you, I wanna try to understand yours, if you'll indulge me by answering a few questions:

1) you say Guy is being attacked by the emotions of the rings, now we've seen that the Red ring exerts a lot of influence over the user, making them seem almost vampiric in their behaviour...but can the same be said of the Sapphire? I can`t recall seeing any signs of the Sapphire Ring influencing the user to same degree of emotional control as the red.

Since we have never seen a Male Star Sapphire before, it really is impossible to answer that one with complete certainty. But based on the previously established idea that "the further the rings are from the center, the greater the risk on the user", I would think that it's reasonable to assume that the Violet Ring also has some sort of extreme controlling/warping effect on its user like with the Red. And Ganthet said in this very issue that Guy wields the "two extreme rings". I would imagine these two are considered "extreme" for a reason. Perhaps because these two rings are the rings that could easily and completely overpower you and take-over ones self. But to give a bit of an example of the Star Sapphire ring completely taking over someone, or at least the closest I could think of achieving that effect in my view anyway, is the crystalization process which brings about a forced-conversion and complete personality change afterwards (Fatality), kinda like what the Indigo light/ring have possibly done to all its members. And by also looking at what they did to Black Hand.

2) Depending on your answer above, should any of the rings have been more dominant over Guy? Does his previous exposure to it make it forseeable hat he has a resistance to the influence or would the lingering red left from the Blackest NIght that was never fully removed make him more suceptible? Which ring should have logically had the advantage?

To be completely honest, I really can't say. This would be a classic case of being totally up to the writer to decide which of the Rings would win control over Guy. Because the way I see it, it really can go both ways since there can be arguments for both cases. So this would be one of those things that will totally depend on what the writer wants and where he wants to take the story or if DC wants to release an Action Figure of Guy in an SS uniform. In the pro-Red argument, I would think that since Guy easily feels rage or easily gets enraged due to his personality, and by adding in the fact that it is already probably taking alot of willpower and concentration on Guy's part to not get completely taken over by the Red ring, that adding another ring, especially one as extreme as the Violet, which is the farthest one from the spectrum besides Red, that Guy should've instantly and immediately lost the battle with the Red and the Red should've completely taken over him. But on the pro-Violet argument, it can be argued that since Guy (nor any male for that matter) had no previous experience with a Sapphire Ring, that it should've easily taken over him since he has no resistance to it at all. Or maybe men just won't be able to control a Violet ring without dire consequences and that's why we still haven't seen a Male Star Sapphire. All the arguments for the Red winning and for the Violet winning are simply my views mind you, which I based on everything that was established and everything we have seen (or haven't seen in the case of a Male Star Sapphire).

3) Your point about Ganthet's ring exploding holds a lot of water...but would it be too much of a stretch for Humans, being emotional creatures, being more adpet at handling their influence and power rather than a member of a race that was bred/conditioned no to feel anything?

To a degree and to some extent, maybe yes that's possible. But it was explicitly stated that the reason Hal, Guy, John, Kyle even Kilowog and Ganthet was able to resist the influence initially was because of their previous experience with Parallax. And based on that information, in my point of view anyway, the reason Ganthet got his hand blown off was because he still fought for control of the Green ring, unlike Hal and Guy who decided to just give up entirely on using and fighting for control over the Green ring and just find a way to remove the ring from their fingers. If they (Hal & Guy) decided to continue to use and keep fighting for control of the Green ring on their fingers, I would think that they would've gotten their hands blown off as well. Also in this case, even if Ganthet was the one among them all who was conditioned for centuries to be devoid of emotion, he was still really the one that was able to completely gain control of himself and his ring by snapping out of it quickly and by still being able to get the ring to submit to his will and not the other way around. Unlike with Hal and Guy, even if they've already realized that the Green ring was trying to control them, they still weren't able to overcome it enough to control their actions which made them continue punching each other until the time they were finally able to shut their hearts and minds off from the ring.

I forgot to mention something before. I said earlier in one of my posts that somethings gotta give and gave plausible consequences that should've happened to Guy when he was trying to control the two extreme rings. But I forgot to mention that something did in fact gave. After finally breaking the CPB, Guy passes out for a quick moment (Okay, not entirely sure about that one) or at the very least, gets completely exhausted and falls to the ground which prompts Kyle to catch him. So Ganthet gets a hand blown off and Guy simply gets exhausted. This is another thing that doesn't make sense to me which also gives me a hard time buying into Guy being able to control both rings just like that. Not a scratch.


And lastly, just so it's perfectly clear, I would like to reiterate that I have NEVER said that it's impossible for a person to feel two completely opposite emotions at the same time. I have never said that nor will I ever say it. And I will never argue otherwise. The thing that I'm having a hard time buying is, and is also a main point of my original argument, is someone being able to balance two very extreme, intoxicating, strong and overpowering emotions such as Love and Hate. Yes you could feel both at the same time, but to feel it at such strong levels and still be able to maintain balance between these two emotions? I really don't think so. One of the two would always turn out to be more stronger than the other and win out in the end.

[TheHorseman Green Lantern Initiate Find all posts View Profile Close TheHorseman]

Okay now I can see where you are coming from...and its interesting that you brought up the effect of the Indigo light...it really does seem that appart from the green, yelow and blue...the other rings all affect the wearer's behaviour....

With the Red its kind of like a blood thirst, with the Orange it looks like some kind possessive addiction, with the Indigo like a brainwashing, and the Violet some kind of weird hippie conversion.

What do you think?

As for the no male Sapphire, its a good point, although we`ve seen the Predator, its a different case because the entity would logically exert more control than the ring. But the this brings up the matter of why of all the lights, Ion doesnt seem to change the behaviour of the host to the same degree as the others we've seen...almost like all it does is grant power and that's it...unlike Parallax who likes to play take over the universe, etc.

Maybe as far as Ion goes they've retconned way too muchat this point.

Oh and yeah..I did delete my original post, I realize that all it was gonna do is keep arguing childlishly without gettingtothe crux of the issue. I figured it was worth more haring you out fully rather than being cheap and making uncalled for remarks.

I'm glad we've come to some kind of understanding...and thank you for answering those questions again!

[Thaal Jordan Green Lantern Initiate Find all posts View Profile Close Thaal Jordan]

Okay now I can see where you are coming from...and its interesting that you brought up the effect of the Indigo light...it really does seem that appart from the green, yelow and blue...the other rings all affect the wearer's behaviour....

With the Red its kind of like a blood thirst, with the Orange it looks like some kind possessive addiction, with the Indigo like a brainwashing, and the Violet some kind of weird hippie conversion.

What do you think?

I think you pretty much nailed it. Nice job on the descriptions. While the processes and symptoms that each color uses and shows are different from each other, the one thing they (colors farther from the middle of the spectrum) all have in common is that there is a clear and high risk of totally losing control, being warped and completely losing ones self.

As for the no male Sapphire, its a good point, although we`ve seen the Predator, its a different case because the entity would logically exert more control than the ring. But the this brings up the matter of why of all the lights, Ion doesnt seem to change the behaviour of the host to the same degree as the others we've seen...almost like all it does is grant power and that's it...unlike Parallax who likes to play take over the universe, etc.

Maybe as far as Ion goes they've retconned way too muchat this point.

You're absolutely right, Ion does simply grant power. It was previously stated (I think during the Sinestro Corps War) that the Ion entity simply amplifies it's host powers. And without a host it is powerless.

Oh and yeah..I did delete my original post, I realize that all it was gonna do is keep arguing childlishly without gettingtothe crux of the issue. I figured it was worth more haring you out fully rather than being cheap and making uncalled for remarks.

No doubt about it, this simple statement clearly shows an intelligent person.

I'm glad we've come to some kind of understanding...and thank you for answering those questions again!

Likewise. And there's really no need to thank me for that. Good day.

[Emerald Warrior JStewart Major Force's Dinner Date Find all posts View Profile Close Emerald Warrior JStewart]

GG IS ONE BAD ASS DUDE!!!! GREAT ISSUE!!!

[JohnMc Senior Corps Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnMc]

Its about time Guy got a moment to shine. After 6 years of just being a flunky and nearly having his neck snapped and just carried around like a baby he finally got to do something.