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Is Volume 3 tainted (retroactively) by Gerard Jones?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Andrew NDB View Post
    That wasn't even in the core book. Personally I never understood the problem with it. Were people just upset because it made Hal less perfect/cardboard?
    I had no problem with it, myself. I had a bigger problem with people who took that one scene and extrapolated it to "they made Hal an alcoholic". I don't think that was supported by what we saw.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Andrew NDB View Post
      That wasn't even in the core book. Personally I never understood the problem with it. Were people just upset because it made Hal less perfect/cardboard?
      I agree. George W. Bush had a DUI conviction and it wasn't even brought up in the 2000 election.

      People's wailing about Hal's grey temples was in the same category.
      The pandemic should have ended in the United States in March. You know why it didn't, don't you? Think about that every time you put on a mask.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Andrew NDB View Post
        That wasn't even in the core book. Personally I never understood the problem with it. Were people just upset because it made Hal less perfect/cardboard?
        Getting a DUI isn't a simple mistake or an emotional reaction. It's the product of things like poor forethought, lack of awareness, entitlement, and addiction. On top of that, instead of owning a mistake that hurt several people and could have *killed someone*, Hal threw a tantrum about how it was the sign's fault. So, of all of the humans on the planet, the ring selects someone who obviously has some immature aspects to his personality as the avatar of indomitable will? That hardly adds up, and yes, it made Hal look like a royal douchenozzle.
        Check out my Green Lantern product reviews on Twitter as the Emerald Enthusiast! @EmeraldEnthusi1

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        • #19
          ^Iím no fan of drunk driving* and itís been decades since I read ED, but doesnít it end with him volunteering for his sentence even though he has the power to just leave? And Iíd have to agree with the others that ED I and II felt apart from vol. 3 itself. It was probably canon, but itís not like it got referenced a lot. And the main issues didnít seem to suggest alcoholism, IIRC (though, again, itís been quite a while).

          *A friend of mine was once trying to tell me how worried she was she was losing her girlfriend one time that she rushed over to her place under the influence. I think she got mad at me as I explained I didnít find that stuff funny,

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Space Cop View Post
            ^I’m no fan of drunk driving* and it’s been decades since I read ED, but doesn’t it end with him volunteering for his sentence even though he has the power to just leave?

            *A friend of mine was once trying to tell me how worried she was she was losing her girlfriend one time that she rushed over to her place under the influence. I think she got mad at me as I explained I didn’t find that stuff funny,
            Yes, he served his sentence and he eventually seemed contrite, but that was the absolute wrong way to go about a story like this. GLs aren't given powers by accident, they're chosen for their mental and moral make-ups. Granted, that's somewhat vague and there has been different interpretations of what it means, but the GL concept doesn't mesh with a character who severely overindulges, then acts like a child when he does harm to others. Hal was a mess when the ring found him, not someone who had gone through a period of self-reflection, fixed his mistakes, and brought out the best version of himself. It was just so cringeworthy.

            And I certainly applaud your effort to open your friend's eyes to the gravity of that kind of behavior.
            Check out my Green Lantern product reviews on Twitter as the Emerald Enthusiast! @EmeraldEnthusi1

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            • #21
              This brings up something I'd change if I were in charge of the property. The CPB should pick the Green Lanterns, and its choices should sometimes seem incongruous. That way, nobody would have a cow if a Lantern wasn't perfect all the time.

              Perfect people aren't good subjects for stories. They're not even interesting.
              Trey Strain
              Guardian of the Universe
              Last edited by Trey Strain; 10-17-2019, 02:28 PM.
              The pandemic should have ended in the United States in March. You know why it didn't, don't you? Think about that every time you put on a mask.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Big Blue Lantern View Post
                Yes, he served his sentence and he eventually seemed contrite, but that was the absolute wrong way to go about a story like this. GLs aren't given powers by accident, they're chosen for their mental and moral make-ups.
                So it kind of comes back to, "it makes Hal less perfect." No?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Big Blue Lantern View Post
                  Yes, he served his sentence and he eventually seemed contrite, but that was the absolute wrong way to go about a story like this. GLs aren't given powers by accident, they're chosen for their mental and moral make-ups. Granted, that's somewhat vague and there has been different interpretations of what it means, but the GL concept doesn't mesh with a character who severely overindulges, then acts like a child when he does harm to others. Hal was a mess when the ring found him, not someone who had gone through a period of self-reflection, fixed his mistakes, and brought out the best version of himself. It was just so cringeworthy.

                  And I certainly applaud your effort to open your friend's eyes to the gravity of that kind of behavior.
                  Quite right. Drunk drivers and the alcoholism associated with are a special sort of disgusting, none of which have any place in a Hal Jordan origin story. Next they will probably tell us Hal was a bully in school.
                  Tell me you hate your boyfriend and love me.

                  INVISIBLE SKY DADDY TO THE RESCUE!!!

                  You don't have to be stupid to believe in God. But it helps.

                  You can tell a Yorkshireman....but you can't tell him much.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by HalFingJordan View Post
                    Quite right. Drunk drivers and the alcoholism associated with are a special sort of disgusting, none of which have any place in a Hal Jordan origin story. Next they will probably tell us Hal was a bully in school.
                    https://www.alcoholproblemsandsoluti...drunk-driving/
                    The pandemic should have ended in the United States in March. You know why it didn't, don't you? Think about that every time you put on a mask.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Andrew NDB View Post
                      So it kind of comes back to, "it makes Hal less perfect." No?
                      "Less than perfect" doesn't do justice to the severity of the issue. This isn't something like Barry Allen's bad time management. The defining characteristic of a GL is his/her will. That means the mind of the wielder must be clear and focused. During the HTH era, we saw what happens when drug use is mixed with a thought-based weapon. If Hal couldn't even properly handle the responsibility of a vehicle, how in the world did the CPB arrive at the conclusion that he was at a place in his life to handle thought-based power?

                      Originally posted by HalFingJordan View Post
                      Quite right. Drunk drivers and the alcoholism associated with are a special sort of disgusting, none of which have any place in a Hal Jordan origin story. Next they will probably tell us Hal was a bully in school.

                      Indeed, it made for a unnecessarily rocky start to a story that ultimately had some solid parts. I don't have a problem with GLs making mistakes due to an abundance of self-assurance, but Emerald Dawn's storyline was a futile attempt to be edgy.

                      And speaking of mistakes, I've completely derailed this thread. Sorry about that, Andrew.
                      Check out my Green Lantern product reviews on Twitter as the Emerald Enthusiast! @EmeraldEnthusi1

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                      • #26
                        It's the same "we have to make the hero become a better person at the end of his origin story" problem that the Man of Steel and Shazam movies had. Conventional wisdom tells us that a character cannot be perfect from the start, even when 80 years of comic books tell a different story. So the characters like Hal, Clark and Billy Batson artficially get flaws (drunk driving, doesn't know that you shouldn't prove your enemies right by killing them, not being worthy of the power of Shazam) that they can then conveniently overcome over the course of the story (or stories, in the case of Superman).

                        It's lazy shorthand. Instead of trying to make the character better at the end of the story, they make them worse at the start, so the status quo they've always had is the new end point of their arc.

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                        • #27
                          In television show or a comic, you normally can't put a protagonist through a character arc, which is what you do in a movie. The only place you can do it in a television show or a comic is in the origin story. There it's a perfectly valid thing to do.
                          The pandemic should have ended in the United States in March. You know why it didn't, don't you? Think about that every time you put on a mask.

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                          • #28
                            Not if it has to lower down the character to scum in order to make way for improvement.

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