Green Lantern #0 *Preview/Spoilers*

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

They have that one fact in common. That's it. They are not alike in any other sense. And you're only factoring into supervillains that steal things. It doesn't even relate to every supervillain out there. So, no.

But that "one fact" (i.e. the notion that crime is an acceptable route to solving your problems/ getting what you want, which applies to ALL criminals, theives or otherwise) is THE fact that I have a problem with in a ring wielder, so the analogy, limited as it is, IS sound for the objection I'm trying to voice.

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

I will say this. If the reason he got the ring in the first place is because it was malfunctioning (which seems to be the case) AND he comes to realize that his choices were bad, I could warm conceivably warm up to the notion.

If he maintains the idea that his choices were somehow justified, and only stops stealing cars because now he doesn't "have to", then the character will likely grate on me.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

But that "one fact" (i.e. the notion that crime is an acceptable route to solving your problems/ getting what you want, which applies to ALL criminals, theives or otherwise) is THE fact that I have a problem with in a ring wielder, so the analogy, limited as it is, IS sound for the objection I'm trying to voice.

Firstly, the story never says that crime is an acceptable way to solve your problems. Being selected as a GL in no way states that the user has never made a mistake in his life.

Secondly, the analogy if far, FAR to simplistic an limited to be effective. You may as well say "why didn't the ring select Braniac if it selects Baz?" Or "Selecting a car thief? That's like selecting Carnage!" No, it's not the same at all. It's a overly simplistic analogy that refuses to address motivations and the actual crime being committed. Theft is a fer less serious crime than murder or mass murder or mass kidnapping. Braniac is a supervillain. Carnage is a supervillain. Baz is not like them. Baz is not like a supervillain.

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

Firstly, the story never says that crime is an acceptable way to solve your problems. Being selected as a GL in no way states that the user has never made a mistake in his life.

Which isn't what I'm saying. But there is a BIG difference between never having made a mistake, and being a currently active car thief whose mindset is apparently that his behavior is justified somehow, and not in fact "a mistake". That MINDSET, that the situation he is in JUSTIFIES stealing cars, that that is an acceptable solution to his problems, is what I object to in a GL, and THAT is what he shares with other villains, even given the widely varying SCOPE of their crimes.

Secondly, the analogy is far, FAR to simplistic an limited to be effective. You may as well say "why didn't the ring select Braniac if it selects Baz?" Or "Selecting a car thief? That's like selecting Carnage!" No, it's not the same at all. It's a overly simplistic analogy that refuses to address motivations and the actual crime being committed. Theft is a fer less serious crime than murder or mass murder or mass kidnapping. Braniac is a supervillain. Carnage is a supervillain. Baz is not like them. Baz is not like a supervillain.

Except in that one way, that one way that I'm objecting to.

It seems like you keep trying to reframe my argument into something it isn't, namely saying "Baz is the same as Brainiac!". My analogy ISN'T as broad as you are making it out to be. Maybe I'm just not expressing it well. That's a real possibility.

[Espronceda Major Force's Dinner Date Find all posts View Profile Close Espronceda]

A friend of mine was upset because he bought the issue and thought it was weak. I took a look and I thought it was worse than I expected. On one hand Hal's book has been hijacked once more to highlight Johns' mediocre new characters, and on the other one has to stomach a soapbox issue equal to Winick's nonesense.

First, the new character is a criminal; that's grand theft! Sorry but the whole "I'm doing it because I need to support my family" is weak. I know a lot of people who have gone through really tough times and they don't steal. According to the law he should be in jail; heck, according to Sharia Law he should have his hands cut. And this is the new "hero" we should be cheering for? Sorry, I don't like criminals it doesn't matter their background.

I think this whole thing is just pandering to a particular group while trying to make news by proclaming how diverse DC is. In the case of Johns, this is just his chance to try yo put his stamp by creating his own Earth GL. You'll see Baz will be a big Mary Sue, if John can't do it in the GL title because fans will get mad, the he'll do it in JLA.

All I can hope is that Johns leaves GL early next year so we can get a new creative team and we can focus on Hal Jordan again.

[Tazer That Evil, Yellow Bastiche Find all posts View Profile Close Tazer]

Yo.

so wait: why does this guy have a gun again?!??




Tazer

[Espronceda Major Force's Dinner Date Find all posts View Profile Close Espronceda]

Well, since he is a carjacker he needs the gun and the hood... Thief Lantern... Green Carjacker... So many options...

[Deadpool Fight like a man: with your words, not your fists. Find all posts View Profile Close Deadpool]

Yo.

so wait: why does this guy have a gun again?!??




Tazer

Aparently, if his ring ever gives out (seeing he probably does not trust it), that's his plan B.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

Which isn't what I'm saying. But there is a BIG difference between never having made a mistake, and being a currently active car thief whose mindset is apparently that his behavior is justified somehow, and not in fact "a mistake". That MINDSET, that the situation he is in JUSTIFIES stealing cars, that that is an acceptable solution to his problems, is what I object to in a GL, and THAT is what he shares with other villains, even given the widely varying SCOPE of their crimes.



Except in that one way, that one way that I'm objecting to.

It seems like you keep trying to reframe my argument into something it isn't, namely saying "Baz is the same as Brainiac!". My analogy ISN'T as broad as you are making it out to be. Maybe I'm just not expressing it well. That's a real possibility.

I'm just gonna go with poor expression. Because the comparison really detracts from your main argument. I just can't get past it if that's how you're framing the discussion.

As for the point, in the Silver Age, where being honest was a requirement, you'd be more correct. Because, obviously, being a car thief isn't honest and isn't GL worthy. But just overcoming great fear; being strong willed, well ...

[samuraix87 Corps Recruit Find all posts View Profile Close samuraix87]

so in gl # 15 it will explain why he has it his ring is out of power and he asked the jl what the other human gls used as back up i this is from geoff johns at his signing in michigan

[Space Cop The Dandy Find all posts View Profile Close Space Cop]

Well, that depends on your definition of "the right thing" within the context of the story Baz is trying to support his family...

...It seems like you keep trying to reframe my argument into something it isn't, namely saying "Baz is the same as Brainiac!". My analogy ISN'T as broad as you are making it out to be. Maybe I'm just not expressing it well. That's a real possibility.

I get what you're saying and I didn't think you were just equating them. I agree there's a common link between his brand of crime and the criminal in general. That would be the view that you "have to do what you have to do" or "if I can't legitimately support my family, the world at large owes me enough that I'll just take it." A few things to consider:

(1) In his interviews Mahnke said Simon carrying the gun as a GL was an extension of his life and attitude as a car thief. So, what would he do if he tried to steal a car and the owner defended it with a gun?

(2) Is it still possibly justified if the person he steals from needed that car? What if it's owned by a guy with no insurance who needs it for a job by which he just barely feeds his 5 kids? The criminal assumption of a guy like Simon is that his needs outweigh those of the owner and/or he doesn't even consider their needs.

(3) In the past GLs would stop this kind of crime. They'd be the guys who lock up car thieves! Hal used to be squeaky clean. He would've busted Baz.

I do agree with Gauntlet that Johns didn't outright justify Baz's thievery in the story. I'm pretty sure he'll be repentant for what he's done. BUT I still think the story overall was designed to make you feel Baz was a victim and pushed too far.

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

I'm just gonna go with poor expression. Because the comparison really detracts from your main argument. I just can't get past it if that's how you're framing the discussion.

As for the point, in the Silver Age, where being honest was a requirement, you'd be more correct. Because, obviously, being a car thief isn't honest and isn't GL worthy. But just overcoming great fear; being strong willed, well ...

I guess I feel like succumbing to the temptation to solve your problems through crime exhibits a weaker will, too, IMHO.

Of course part of my problem is, even if he meets the current letter of the requirements, that doesn't mean I like the idea of giving a ring to somebody that sees crime as the answer to his problems, and I can't ignore the fact that evidence of that happening before is rather thin on the ground. Most GLs that went wrong in the past were shown as being corrupted by the power, not criminals to begin with.

A malfunctioning ring can explain it happening here, but I'm not going to have any interest in reading about such a character being portrayed as a "heroic" GL unless I see him realizing that his earlier attitude was a mistake, rather than still feeling like his actions as a car thief were justifed under the cirumstances. If the reason he gives up crime is that he admits that it was WRONG to do as he did, I could warm to the guy. If the only reason he gives up crime is that he feels like now he doesn't "need to" steal cars to accomplish his goals any more, then I'm going to avoid him like the plague, as much as possible.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

I guess I feel like succumbing to the temptation to solve your problems through crime exhibits a weaker will, too, IMHO.

Of course part of my problem is, even if he meets the current letter of the requirements, that doesn't mean I like the idea of giving a ring to somebody that sees crime as the answer to his problems, and I can't ignore the fact that evidence of that happening before is rather thin on the ground. Most GLs that went wrong in the past were shown as being corrupted by the power, not criminals to begin with.

A malfunctioning ring can explain it happening here, but I'm not going to have any interest in reading about such a character being portrayed as a "heroic" GL unless I see him realizing that his earlier attitude was a mistake, rather than still feeling like his actions as a car thief were justifed under the cirumstances. If the reason he gives up crime is that he admits that it was WRONG to do as he did, I could warm to the guy. If the only reason he gives up crime is that he feels like now he doesn't "need to" steal cars to accomplish his goals any more, then I'm going to avoid him like the plague, as much as possible.

I get your point here. Not sure if I totally agree, especially about it exibiting a weaker will, but he's definately a different breed than the rest. I mean, he is a criminal. No argument there. So being a space cop is obviously an ill fit.

[GreenLantern888 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close GreenLantern888]

So I'm just going to not worry about Simon and just carry on in GL till Hal and Sinestro come and take the book back.

I would've been happier if Black Hand was the main character of the book, at least he's interesting.

[Hypo Lil' Leaguer Find all posts View Profile Close Hypo]

This was...all right.