The Hal and Arisia thing.

[missferris Senior Corps Member Find all posts View Profile Close missferris]

The affair between Hal Jordan and Arisia Raab is never going to be fully ethically clear or agreed upon. I understand that. A particular thread in the qward, however, does have me wanting a bit of clarity on the issue.

I am not talking about retcons or excuses. However, I am going to ask a couple of things...

I understand that we're very egocentric with our humanity and project it on to fiction quite often. Specifically races. Just look at how humanoid Arisia looks! But the fact of the matter remains that our adolescence, our neurological and physiological development that makes an affair between a teenager and an adult wrong in the eyes of many of us in the west ... how are we certain those differences exist between a teenager of Arisia's race and of a human adult?

How are we certain that they develop the same as us, and that an adolescent from their planet is of a lesser mental capacity than we are? Why would we measure them by our standards of what maturity and adulthood are?

Neurologically, teenagers are wired to take risks and unable to fully anticipate consequences to the extent that an adult can. Most, at least. Now, how are we sure the development is exactly the same for Arisia? Why are the ethical standards held to equivalency? I understand why Hal would, or why people in-universe would, but what of the readership? What of the objective viewer that sees two completely different races that age differently and have different biology?

I know why Hal was an ass to Arisia. He was a bad boyfriend, that much is certain, just like I think Kyle kind of sucked to Donna as a boyfriend. But why was what Hal did ethically wrong when all of these factors are considered?

Tell me, guys! I'm only thirteen, I don't know! Help!

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

*going into totally serious mode*

Just the facts, ma'am? None of the dickery?

Unless we want to make false assumptions we have to go on by what we've read in Volume 2. And Volume 2 establishes Arisia as a kid. At every point she acts like a kid and responds as a kid. So, unless we're just making stuff up, we have to assume she's exactly as portrayed: a kid. They really do hammer this point home in Volume 2. When she becomes an adult, it's physically identical to a human growing up.

While it might seem silly, most aliens in GL are differently colored humans. I'm afraid GL doesn't delve too deeply with it's alien cultures most of the time.

Even if you ignore the teenager aspect of Hal dating Arisia, you can't really ignore the fact that she's an alien stranded on Earth, away from all her friends, her family, her home, and just about everything familiar without any way to get back to her own people.

In Volume 2 she handled things fine. But in Volume 3 she does not. Admittingly, it's slightly retconned, but it makes the scenario morally wrong to me.

[missferris Senior Corps Member Find all posts View Profile Close missferris]

*going into totally serious mode*

Just the facts, ma'am? None of the dickery?

Unless we want to make false assumptions we have to go on by what we've read in Volume 2. And Volume 2 establishes Arisia as a kid. At every point she acts like a kid and responds as a kid. So, unless we're just making stuff up, we have to assume she's exactly as portrayed: a kid. They really do hammer this point home in Volume 2. When she becomes an adult, it's physically identical to a human growing up.

While it might seem silly, most aliens in GL are differently colored humans. I'm afraid GL doesn't delve too deeply with it's alien cultures most of the time.

Even if you ignore the teenager aspect of Hal dating Arisia, you can't really ignore the fact that she's an alien stranded on Earth, away from all her friends, her family, her home, and just about everything familiar without any way to get back to her own people.

In Volume 2 she handled things fine. But in Volume 3 she does not. Admittingly, it's slightly retconned, but it makes the scenario morally wrong to me.

The thing is, because of the unrealistic ways alien races are handled in the GL mythos, if the writers want Arisia to age differently and mature differently in a retroactive manner, that's their prerogative and right... there is no established biology, and one could easily say personalities such as hotheadedness, temperaments and whatnot are all the amounts of endorphins that Arisia has in her brain. Or whatever. Her aging herself up and looking like an "adult" still doesn't really change the fact that she could have still been psychologically advanced or Hal's equal in many ways, despite the way we intake and register her actions.

Now, the ethics of him dating an isolated alien from a different culture who is obviously lonely and unstable and hero worships him are ... well, easily deplorable. It's the age thing concerning the different races and how subjective the "different colored humans" stuff is to change from writer to writer that has me caring less about the age, and more about how he treated her. Which are undeniable points you bring up.

[Gl Josh Senior Corps Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gl Josh]

To be brutally honest here, in most of Vol 2 she was written as a child with a crush on Hal. She made herself appear more womanly and Hal dug her new look (like most straight guys would). They had a relationship during some of Vol 2 (happy times) and 3 (rough times), but her age was mentioned a few times as being 14,13,28, and 240. So two numbers she is ok and two numbers she is not, besides three of those numbers happened BEFORE Zero Hour (time line recreated) and Infinite Crisis (multi-verse recreated and time lines tweaked).

[missferris Senior Corps Member Find all posts View Profile Close missferris]

So we can agree that the age thing is iffy and morally objectionable and debatable, but also salvageable by the way the DCU works and the way subjective writing, continuity, time line recreations and alien physiology works... but the content and quality of the relationship was poor particularly in volume 3 and imbalanced.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

There's no need to speculate on how she handled things psychologically, we do know for a fact.

Let's go with Volume 2. In volume 2 there's no ill effects from her aging at all. Morally, they make it clear Hal's in the green. Because she wants to be older, wants to date him, and wants to be on Earth.

Not that it's entirely responsible for him to take her up on all those things. She lost 14 years. That's heavy. To me anyhow.

Volume 3 establishes that she was a wreck the whole time. "Fake it 'till you make it" sort of thing. Arisia basically gets by on her looks and, after getting hit on the head, completely regresses mentally. The implication is that it's because she used her ring to age herself.

Personally, I tend to follow Volume 3 since it's a more realistic picture of how things would go. When it comes to this debate, you really have to pick your mythology.

Of course you could always pick Volume 4, where she's actually several decades OLDER than Hal. Does that make her the pedophile, then? Hm. I wonder ...

[missferris Senior Corps Member Find all posts View Profile Close missferris]

There's no need to speculate on how she handled things psychologically, we do know for a fact.

Let's go with Volume 2. In volume 2 there's no ill effects from her aging at all. Morally, they make it clear Hal's in the green. Because she wants to be older, wants to date him, and wants to be on Earth.

Not that it's entirely responsible for him to take her up on all those things. She lost 14 years. That's heavy. To me anyhow.

Volume 3 establishes that she was a wreck the whole time. "Fake it 'till you make it" sort of thing. Arisia basically gets by on her looks and, after getting hit on the head, completely regresses mentally. The implication is that it's because she used her ring to age herself.

Personally, I tend to follow Volume 3 since it's a more realistic picture of how things would go. When it comes to this debate, you really have to pick your mythology.

Of course you could always pick Volume 4, where she's actually several decades OLDER than Hal. Does that make her the pedophile, then? Hm. I wonder ...

This all makes me very sad for Arisia. I wish they went into this more, actually.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

Well, she did get better during Guy's Warrior days. I didn't collect that series, but she seemed to really come into her own and might have dated Guy before being killed by Major Force.

Essential reading for Volume 3 would be GLCQ #1. It's a short story, but, yeah ... it made me very sad for Arisia too.

[Raker616 Corps Honor Guard Find all posts View Profile Close Raker616]

I'm so happy that Johns fixed the mess that was the Arisia/Hal relationship, everything about it was disturbing and unfortunate in everyway now we can just move on from all of that.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

Making her 240 years old and still a teen is really stretching it for me. They kinda fixed one problem and added another.

Arisia's age is best left forgotten.

[missferris Senior Corps Member Find all posts View Profile Close missferris]

Making her 240 years old and still a teen is really stretching it for me. They kinda fixed one problem and added another.

Arisia's age is best left forgotten.

I agree. It's more about the context of how culturally isolated she was and the ups and downs between vol 2 and vol 3 that should be focused on, I think, since the rest is just left up to continuity and the whims of new writers.

I do think this would be an interesting confrontation between Hal and Arisia in the future, though ... no one would be able to handle it with the care and finesse that it would need. Have they had anything remotely resembling anything like this since Hal's return?

[archer Corps Recruit Find all posts View Profile Close archer]

I found this: Link

Seems sort of uh....relevant?

... *shrugs*

[Dr. Naysay Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Dr. Naysay]

Volume 2 establishes Arisia as a kid. At every point she acts like a kid and responds as a kid.

Except for one tiny detail...


She's handed "the most powerful weapon in the Universe" and entrusted to protect an entire sector.

So...

She can be a Green Lantern.... make life or death decisions for potentially billions of organisms.... but she can't sleep with Hal Jordan because she's two or three years too young?





Pffffffff....


If there's grass on the Spaceballfield play Spaceball.

[Gauntlet101010 Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Gauntlet101010]

Except for one tiny detail...


She's handed "the most powerful weapon in the Universe" and entrusted to protect an entire sector.

So was G'Nort. And the insane version of Guy Garder. Honest and fearless are the requirements. Not mature, competent, or sane.

[Andrew NDB Shot Caller Find all posts View Profile Close Andrew NDB]

I'm so happy that Johns fixed the mess that was the Arisia/Hal relationship

I'd agree it was kind of necessary if Arisia was to be reintroduced into modern GL comics... but the way Geoff did it was just sooo on-the-nose and clumsy. He only even bothered to include her because he was well aware that "Hal used to be a pedophile!" was going to be a big, ongoing (and valid) blight against the character were things to move forward with Hal as planned and that it needed to be fixed. How do I know this? For starters, how about the fact that as soon as Hal was exonerated via his retcon that Arisia is suddenly 5 million years old or whatever, you never see the character again in GL? Not even to reconcile (as friends, even) with Hal, not even one scene? Not enough? How about the fact that her very presence in the "Lost Lanterns" arc is haphazard, at best? I mean, let me get this straight... she wasn't a lost Lantern, she died on Earth long after she'd even wielded a ring... and the Manhunters honestly bothered to dig her up there and drag her to Biot? Why? For what purpose?