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-   -   The Green Lantern by Grant Morrison and Liam Sharp (http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24802)

Big Daddy Dave Skywalker 07-22-2018 02:02 PM

Also sounds MIGHTY convenient that DC waits and puts real effort into GL a mere year and a half before the next Green Lantern movie is supposed to come out. Like they know the clock is ticking and they need to start herding the lost readers back before the movie gets here.

Booster Beetle 07-22-2018 09:29 PM

Hal’s been in the spotlight for 13 years, when is it Kyle’s turn again?

Big Daddy Dave Skywalker 07-22-2018 09:37 PM

Probably not ever honestly. Hal is the main chatacter of the franchise. Kyle lost much of his appeal when he wasn't new anymore. They have Cruz and Baz covering the new department. And even that new car smell has almost left them.

I'm not saying this to be a dink or anything, it's sincerely what I feel the attitude is from the powers that be to these characters. They all have a monetary value to the company in one degree or another. IMO (which yes, IS just an opinion) if DC decided to main event another human GL instead of Hal, it would be John Stewart or Jessica Cruz. They have something to offer that Guy Hal and Kyle don't. One is a minority and the other is a woman. They both could be revamped or repackaged with new origins to make them more appealing if need be. But all the others can be looked at by casual fans as interchangable white guys.

Big Daddy Dave Skywalker 07-22-2018 09:48 PM

Also consider this; The GL franchise as we know it turns 60 next year in 2019 (forget Alan for a minute, he was the prototype and his short 10 year run was followed by a dormant 7 years.)

For 50 of those 60 years, Hal has been the main GL one way or another. As time goes on, 1995-2005 becomes a proportionately smaller and smaller chunk of the overall life of the GL franchise.

Booster Beetle 07-22-2018 11:15 PM

But Kyle is Latino! So there’s a chance.

Big Daddy Dave Skywalker 07-23-2018 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booster Beetle (Post 955276)
But Kyle is Latino! So there’s a chance.

Touche!

Michael Heide 07-23-2018 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booster Beetle (Post 955276)
But Kyle is Latino! So there’s a chance.

He was raised by an Irish single mother in California.

At three points of Kyle's run, readers have met his dad. At the end of the first Green Arrow crossover, in Ron Marz' last Secret Files issue and in Judd Winick's #150. The third one was a drastically different character than the first two. Not just a simple retcon, but a blatant contradiction. Also, when they changed Aaron Rayner's race from Caucasian to Latino, they erased his military career and made him an unemployed slob with a beer belly. That was a much more racist act than not making him Mexican would have been.
Only one explanation could make sense of all of this (unless you count my "Hal is still Parallax, the fear bug is a lie, and Hal has continued changing the DCU ever since Zero Hour" theory that Andrew based the first two-parter of the Hal & Kyle show on). It's a cover. It's witness protection or something to that effect. Aaron Rayner isn't Latino and has never been. And neither has Kyle.

Booster Beetle 07-23-2018 10:54 AM

They met him for the first time for the fourth time a couple of years ago when the First Lantern showed up. He’s a Latin mechanic with his own shop now

Big Daddy Dave Skywalker 07-23-2018 01:25 PM

LOL that whole thing was SO bad.

Andrew NDB 07-23-2018 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Dave Skywalker (Post 955294)
LOL that whole thing was SO bad.

Very embarrassing. To read and to imagine them writing and standing behind, and editorial backing.

It used to be editorial was supposed to be the ones doing the research that writers wouldn't be necessarily expected to. Now it's all lawless. Nobody cares. It's whatever.

Trey Strain 07-23-2018 05:10 PM

I've posted about this here before, but some of you might have missed it.

The original plan for GL #150, Kyle's run, was that the GLC was coming back, minus Hal. They were going to worry about getting Hal back later. But guess who took a dump in that punch bowl?

You guessed it! It was Geoff Johns!

It had already been decided that Johns was going to take over Green Lantern at some point, so he demanded to do the whole thing himself, all at once, and with Hal.

So Johns delayed the restoration by two and a half years!

That left DC scrambling for a story for #150, so Judd Winick came up with the "earth shattering" revelation that Kyle's father was a Latino.

That was a big hairy deal to Winick, but not to anyone else. People on the old DC boards laughed at it and ridiculed it, so Winick came there are called us "a bunch of racists."

DC didn't even bother changing the cover they had done for it, which had nothing to do with what they finally published. Here it is.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Lantern_Vol_3_150

Trey Strain 07-23-2018 06:26 PM

It's obvious Johns thought that except for Hal, Green Lantern had always sucked, from Day 1, until he got his hands on it. Even Hal's supporting cast sucked.

The good news is that he can't stage any more stealth attacks on the property. Everyone has seen the cards he's holding.

Andrew NDB 07-23-2018 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trey Strain (Post 955317)
It's obvious Johns thought that except for Hal, Green Lantern had always sucked, from Day 1, until he got his hands on it. Even Hal's supporting cast sucked.

The good news is that he can't stage any more stealth attacks on the property. Everyone has seen the cards he's holding.

Correct, and he's already sort of made himself radioactive. Maybe sometime soon we can start hearing from writers and artists at DC over the years about their honest interactions with Johns, now that they'll be unafraid to voice them for the first time ever. Maybe the #metoo movement can claim him somehow... surely he's groped someone or said something defamatory at some point in his career?

What I'd love to see is Grant Morrison really assert himself as "The Guy" with Green Lantern at large. But I know he won't, in the same way he let the Batman writers walk all over him when he was doing Batman stuff. Same with Superman during his Action Comics run.

Ωmega Man 07-24-2018 01:57 AM

DC had wanted to bring the Corps back for awhile, so I don't buy that GJ was already getting his hands into the mix back around issue #150. Geoff was barely 2 years into his run on the Flash the same month GL issue #150 came out, and the biggest things up until then he'd written were Stars and STRIPE and the JSA title that he started with another writer. His Flash didn't really start to make waves until the buildup to issue #200, while the JSA continued to do the impossible and bring back characters like Hawkman, Hourman, and Black Adam. Both titles were getting there, but they were not at their peak.

The cover featured all the Earth GL's because it was an anniversary issue. You know... like when a dozen Bat-family characters appear on an anniversary issue cover then only 3 of them appear in the issue?

____________________

Hal was my favorite DC superhero as a kid, right after Swamp Thing and Batman. It mainly had to do with him being the only hero who had brown hair like mine. In my eyes he's not the best, but for the writers to get the rest of the GLC right, they have to make Hal work. He's the starting point. Hopefully the Morrison series does well enough DC warrants trying another solo GL series *cough* Kyle *cough* as well as another volume of GLC.

https://i.imgur.com/JdMEEVc.png

Michael Heide 07-26-2018 06:01 PM

DC World's Finest Comics Panel at SDCC

Quote:

Sharp discussed his current Brave and the Bold story with Celtic Wonder Woman and Batman, “who is a small fairytale creature.” His next project will be with Grant Morrison on the recently announced title The Green Lantern. Sharp treated the audience to his impression of Morrison’s accent and said that while he rarely understands the writer he usually just responds, “I’m in. Whatever you said.”

Sharp and Morrison had “chatted endlessly” about Green Lantern after an industry party. The story will be a “normal police procedural on a grand scale.” Sharp gave the example that if “some cosmic entity were constructing a massive, alien mega-structure around a star but it was blocking interplanetary traffic then Green Lantern would have him move it.” Fans should expect the return of characters from the 1950s-60s. “This is for Old School, longtime fans. This is for Gil Kane fans.”

Could Morrison bring Pol Manning back?

Mister Ed 07-26-2018 06:45 PM

Myrwhydden seems like someone Morrison might like. Maybe Evil Star?

Spectremjm 07-26-2018 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Dave Skywalker (Post 955283)
Touche!

So's Jessica clearly, so as a woman and a latina, she still wins. LOL

Star-Lantern 07-26-2018 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trey Strain (Post 955316)
I've posted about this here before, but some of you might have missed it.

The original plan for GL #150, Kyle's run, was that the GLC was coming back, minus Hal. They were going to worry about getting Hal back later. But guess who took a dump in that punch bowl?

You guessed it! It was Geoff Johns!

You know, I'm not sure that is true. At least not all the way. I think instead of Geoff Johns being the driving force behind bringing back Hal Jordan, it was Dan DiDio. At the very least, I don't think it was only Geoff Johns structuring things back there. My understanding is it was DiDio and Tomasi, so if there were changes, it was probably those guys who made them. DiDio has said that one of his top priorities when he became Editor in Chief was to bring back Hal Jordan. I believe it was DiDio who told Johns it would be okay to kill Kyle Rayner if he wanted to. It was largely DiDio who fought to have only Barry Allen as The Flash while throwing Wally West out.

Consider, it was Geoff Johns who wanted to make Green Lantern over bloated and have all these lead characters all at once and all these colored Corps. Sure, DiDio will publish that as long as it sells, but I don't think that was his idea.

When you look at what happened to Wally West, and how DiDio was okay with having Kyle Rayner killed, and other things he's said in interviews alluding to Hal Jordan being the only Green Lantern that matters, and the strong stance he's taken on Barbara Gordon being the only Batgirl while tossing the other versions to the wayside, I think it's safe to assume DiDio doesn't like the idea of having redundant characters running around. And that is actually understandable, in my opinion. I mean, I wouldn't do that, but it was the situation the DC Universe found itself in over the years.

Seeing how Johns isn't in an executive position, it looks like DiDio is scaling things back and focusing on Hal Jordan and perhaps ignoring or getting rid of some of the redundant characters. So, I think the real driving force behind bringing back Hal Jordan was Dan DiDio. Johns was just the guy they hired to write it, though I'm sure they were generally on the same page with each other.

About Kyle Rayner's dad, last time I saw him (during New Guardians) he did not seem to be Latino. Since Kyle Rayner's background is so all over the place, and has such consistency issues, I don't see him as any kind of minority in America. Whatever else was done to him was done retroactively and wasn't the intent of his original creators.

Trey Strain 07-26-2018 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star-Lantern (Post 955418)
You know, I'm not sure that is true. At least not all the way. I think instead of Geoff Johns being the driving force behind bringing back Hal Jordan, it was Dan DiDio. At the very least, I don't think it was only Geoff Johns structuring things back there. My understanding is it was DiDio and Tomasi, so if there were changes, it was probably those guys who made them. DiDio has said that one of his top priorities when he became Editor in Chief was to bring back Hal Jordan. I believe it was DiDio who told Johns it would be okay to kill Kyle Rayner if he wanted to. It was largely DiDio who fought to have only Barry Allen as The Flash while throwing Wally West out.

Consider, it was Geoff Johns who wanted to make Green Lantern over bloated and have all these lead characters all at once and all these colored Corps. Sure, DiDio will publish that as long as it sells, but I don't think that was his idea.

When you look at what happened to Wally West, and how DiDio was okay with having Kyle Rayner killed, and other things he's said in interviews alluding to Hal Jordan being the only Green Lantern that matters, and the strong stance he's taken on Barbara Gordon being the only Batgirl while tossing the other versions to the wayside, I think it's safe to assume DiDio doesn't like the idea of having redundant characters running around. And that is actually understandable, in my opinion. I mean, I wouldn't do that, but it was the situation the DC Universe found itself in over the years.

Seeing how Johns isn't in an executive position, it looks like DiDio is scaling things back and focusing on Hal Jordan and perhaps ignoring or getting rid of some of the redundant characters. So, I think the real driving force behind bringing back Hal Jordan was Dan DiDio. Johns was just the guy they hired to write it, though I'm sure they were generally on the same page with each other.

About Kyle Rayner's dad, last time I saw him (during New Guardians) he did not seem to be Latino. Since Kyle Rayner's background is so all over the place, and has such consistency issues, I don't see him as any kind of minority in America. Whatever else was done to him was done retroactively and wasn't the intent of his original creators.

Geoff Johns was secretly a member of HEAT for a long time before he became the writer of Green Lantern. Peter Tomasi said Johns talked him into bringing back Hal and the Corps, and that's why it happened. And Johns gave Tomasi the credit for it. Whatever bad thing anyone wants to say about Johns, and there's plenty to say that's bad, he did push for it and get it done.

Other comics pros like Kurt Busiek, Alex Ross and John Byrne also wanted the GL mythos restored, and had said so publicly when DC was taking a hard line and it was considered uncool on the message boards to oppose DC about it. But Johns was the catalyst, even though his intentions were bad. He wanted to very gradually throw it all away again and replace it with his own crap.

BTW, the story in which Johns restored Hal and the GLC was simply a list of bullet points of what HEAT wanted. Down to the last detail! But after that Johns stopped listening to anyone. And you know the rest.

Trey Strain 07-26-2018 11:20 PM

During a discussion among HEAT members, Johns said Jenette Kahn had been the person at DC who wouldn't accept Hal and the Corps coming back. Once she left it became possible to do, and the decision was made immediately after that.

It was set up in Legacy: The Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan, written by Joe Kelly and published as a TPB on May 1 2002, and was going to be completed in GL #150, published in July 2002 and presumably to be written by Judd Winick. But as I said, Johns intervened and got it delayed until December 2004 so he could write it himself as a six-issue mini and include Hal.

Tom Kamalku restored Oa in Legacy, and I assume that he and the other members of Hal's supporting cast were going to play big roles afterward. But Geoff obviously hated all that and wanted Hal in space. Green Lantern had to be about HIS stuff.

Trey Strain 07-27-2018 12:21 AM

You might be wondering what Johns said during those discussions. He actually didn't say much. One time he asked members for some ideas about what he should do in the Flash. Someone suggested that he use Guy, who wasn't being used then. He said that his brother was a fan of Guy and that he'd do it. But he never did.

W.West 07-27-2018 01:41 AM

REJOICE PEOPLE REJOICE

Big Daddy Dave Skywalker 07-27-2018 04:23 AM

Beinging 60s GL characters back? No long drawn out windbag arcs where the universe is at stake? No gay color spectrum? The GLC not at the verge of extinction every issue? Treating Hal Jordan like an intergalactic cop again? Sign me up!!

Trey Strain 07-27-2018 01:23 PM

In hindsight, Johns started screwing up Green Lantern long before he started writing it. I'm not a fan of Winick's writing, but if he had been allowed to re-establish the property as it was before except without Hal, then when Johns brought Hal back two and a half years later, he could not have proceeded to Geoffcon every detail about it with impunity.

Booster Beetle 07-27-2018 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Dave Skywalker (Post 955430)
Beinging 60s GL characters back? No long drawn out windbag arcs where the universe is at stake? No gay color spectrum? The GLC not at the verge of extinction every issue? Treating Hal Jordan like an intergalactic cop again? Sign me up!!

But I like Kyle and the various members of the Rainbow Brigade :(


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