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-   -   Do you care about Baz and Jessica? (http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24879)

Andrew NDB 12-19-2018 05:15 AM

Do you care about Baz and Jessica?
 
Because it kind of seems like... no one does, really? Or am I way off?

Big Daddy Dave Skywalker 12-19-2018 06:07 AM

I would care about them only as burnt corpses. Owen and Beru style.

Space Cop 12-19-2018 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB (Post 958322)
Because it kind of seems like... no one does, really? Or am I way off?

Someone here claims their wife is a big Cruz fan (sorry I can't remember you, bud).

Mister Ed 12-19-2018 02:22 PM

My wife was vaguely interested to hear that there was a female GL that hails from Portland , OR, since that's where we live. But she doesn't care enough to read any of the comics.

Big Daddy Dave Skywalker 12-19-2018 03:52 PM

I don't think there are many readers out there who care enough to shell out money to support a Jessica comic.

Mister Ed 12-19-2018 03:55 PM

I know I've been skipping Justice League Odyssey in part because Jessica is not a GL that makes me buy stuff I'm otherwise iffy on.

IonFan 12-19-2018 10:28 PM

nope

Michael Heide 12-20-2018 02:27 PM

I don't want them to die. I just don't want to read about them. If I had to pick one, let them get rid of Simon.

Star-Lantern 12-22-2018 09:22 AM

Nope.
I would kill them both and never, EVER have them return, if I could. Actually, I would go so far as to retcon them out of ever existing.

As to whether anyone cares about them, I don't believe anyone likes Simon. Jessica? I think it depends on where you look. I don't think anyone here likes her, from what I have seen, but if you look in some other circles you will find some people who like her. However, I don't believe she is a particularly popular character.

At this point, I believe any new Earth Green Lantern is going to have such an uphill battle getting a very strong fanbase that DC should stop trying. The existing Green Lantern fans, which are already very fractured, are never going to accept any new character, which will only further fracture the fans and splinter the panel time.

Also, comics work so different now than they did in previous decades. Kyle Rayner was able to get a fanbase because some creators actually sat down and put in the effort to get him fans. Ron Marz and Daryl Banks put in years and years of work and had a very long and consistent run. That type of thing doesn't often happen in comics these days. You'll be extremely lucky to get 20 issues out of the same creative team, and heck, you'll be lucky to get 20 issues out of a single comic book title now.

I think there are a number of reasons for this. Lagging sales, which result in much more frequent creative shake ups than before. Some would say that there is a shorter attention span of the audience, but I'm not sure how true that is. Also, all the creator owned options creators have now. Why should they spend years and years building up some character only to have DC and WB benefit from all their hard work. Creators can put in that effort and build their own stuff and potentially reap far greater rewards.

Geoff Johns couldn't be bothered to put in the effort to really get Baz and Cruz a strong fanbase, and if he won't, no one else will. The Green Lanterns comic series, which Johns couldn't be bothered to write, only happened because Johns was President of DC at the time, and the mastermind behind the "Rebirth" initiative. That circumstance isn't likely to happen again.

Big Blue Lantern 12-22-2018 10:25 AM

Of course I care. They're Green Lanterns, and there's always something special about seeing characters develop relationships with their rings and find their place in the Corps.

Trey Strain 12-23-2018 01:56 PM

Shit, no.

Big Daddy Dave Skywalker 12-23-2018 07:50 PM

They not only have to brutally murder THEM, they now have to kill the new new NEW one in Young Justice.

Sylent_Asassin 12-26-2018 09:04 PM

I don't care about either. They don't have to die, but if their rings stopped working, flew off their fingers and they had to go away, I'd be content.

I think Jessica would have been better served staying the new Power Ring instead of becoming a GL. She could have been a new Carol Ferris type of villain to add to the GL's rogues gallery, which could certainly use an upgrade.

Big Blue Lantern 01-12-2019 06:23 PM

Jessica will enter the world of DC's animated films, voiced by Diane Guerrero. This is yet another sign that she's connecting with fans.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...st-set-1173352

Star-Lantern 01-13-2019 10:25 AM

The great, GREAT majority of these cartoon movie things that DC has been doing for the last 10 or 11 years or however long have been very bland and unremarkable to me. They often range from blandly okay, like that early Wonder Woman one, to outright terrible, like Justice League War. The only ones that really impressed me were Under the Red Hood and the recent Death of Superman one. Though, I'll be fair, I haven't seen all of them, but that is due to them hardly ever really impressing me when I do see them. There were some on the better side of okay, though, like All-Star Superman and Crisis on Two Earths. Still, they were very far from knocking my socks off like the golden days of the DCAU did, with Batman: TAS, Superman: TAS, and Justice League. This looks like one that I will probably skip unless I hear it is excellent, and I will be very surprised if it is.

As for Jessica Cruz... bleh. It seems DC is rather committed to her, which I feel is a mistake, but whatever.

Space Cop 01-13-2019 12:09 PM

^A lot of them have felt like decent two-part episodes--a fine diversion, but nothing I'd rush to get. However, I thought the Wonder Woman animated movie was excellent. That and JL: Final Frontier are the only non-GL ones I currently own, but I would like to get the Suicide Squad ones.

Star-Lantern 01-13-2019 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Space Cop (Post 959015)
^A lot of them have felt like decent two-part episodes--a fine diversion, but nothing I'd rush to get. However, I thought the Wonder Woman animated movie was excellent. That and JL: Final Frontier are the only non-GL ones I currently own, but I would like to get the Suicide Squad ones.

Concerning the Green Lantern ones, I thought First Flight was one of the okay ones. Not bad, but also not especially exciting, and Emerald Knights was just boring for me.

Space Cop 01-14-2019 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star-Lantern (Post 959022)
Concerning the Green Lantern ones, I thought First Flight was one of the okay ones. Not bad, but also not especially exciting, and Emerald Knights was just boring for me.

I thought FF was better than the live-action movie. As for EK, it's probably only mediocre objectively, but just having all those GLs in a cartoon is enough to keep me entertained (there was a long time I thought we'd never see an animated GL again, let alone a movie) and "Mogo Doesn't Socialize" came off well.

Big Blue Lantern 01-15-2019 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star-Lantern (Post 959014)
The great, GREAT majority of these cartoon movie things that DC has been doing for the last 10 or 11 years or however long have been very bland and unremarkable to me. They often range from blandly okay, like that early Wonder Woman one, to outright terrible, like Justice League War. The only ones that really impressed me were Under the Red Hood and the recent Death of Superman one. Though, I'll be fair, I haven't seen all of them, but that is due to them hardly ever really impressing me when I do see them. There were some on the better side of okay, though, like All-Star Superman and Crisis on Two Earths. Still, they were very far from knocking my socks off like the golden days of the DCAU did, with Batman: TAS, Superman: TAS, and Justice League. This looks like one that I will probably skip unless I hear it is excellent, and I will be very surprised if it is.

As for Jessica Cruz... bleh. It seems DC is rather committed to her, which I feel is a mistake, but whatever.


I always thought the DCAU was a mixed bag, and that the current DC animated films are an upgrade. However, I was disappointed when John got no backstory in his appearance, so I hope JL vs the FF doesn't repeat that omission.

Star-Lantern 01-15-2019 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Blue Lantern (Post 959049)
I always thought the DCAU was a mixed bag, and that the current DC animated films are an upgrade. However, I was disappointed when John got no backstory in his appearance, so I hope JL vs the FF doesn't repeat that omission.

Fair enough. As they say... different strokes, and all that.

As for John's appearance, I don't know why they bothered having him at all, since he was given no good reason for being there, they didn't do anything with him, and especially if they are swapping him out for Jessica so soon. From the description, it sounds like Jessica will be an important part of this film, and I get the feeling that whoever is back there at DC seems to like Jessica more than John Stewart anyway, or she at least seems to be more of a priority, so she will probably get better treatment.

Tarmode 02-28-2019 08:34 PM

I definitely care, it was a good book, but DC is going to do the hell what they want to do, so why bother.

Trey Strain 03-01-2019 02:53 PM

Baz and Cruz sprang from two unfortunate sources.

First, the desire of Geoff Johns to get paid royalties and to permanently put his mark of the property.

And second, the desire of DC to signal its virtue by selling people what they thought people should buy -- which is a fundamental mistake for any business to make, let alone a business that has long passed its growth stage.

Star-Lantern 03-01-2019 11:14 PM

If it were my decision, I'd get rid of them. I can't remember if I said that above. Probably. I would actually scale things way back to Hal, John, and Guy.

Over the past couple days of taking a look at back issues, I realized something. Ever since Kyle Rayner came along, the Green Lantern story that existed before him from 1959 to 1994, was destroyed, and hasn't ever been able to come back. That's not a criticism of the Kyle Rayner character, but just a statement of my perspective. Those previous stories all acknowledged each other and built upon each other, and despite shifts in tone sometimes, they all seemed connected.

I know I've said something like this before, but now it's gotten to the point where Green Lantern doesn't really resemble itself to me, and hasn't for quite some time. Although, granted, I can't speak too much on the Grant Morrison stuff.

If someone handed me the reins of Green Lantern, I would act as though I was working from the continuity that existed before Emerald Twilight, with some adjustments--like I wouldn't give Hal Jordan gray temples, and I think I'd retcon the entire Xanshi thing as not having happened (I don't think that is necessary for Mosaic), and go from there.

The franchise had not yet been over bloated with unnecessary Corps and Lanterns at that point, and it still seemed like itself to me. I'm not sure if an entire reboot like Trey Strain preaches is necessary, but I would do a drastic adjustment to continuity. I'm sure a lot of people would hate that, but all these Lanterns are beyond superfluous at this point, and I don't see that emotional spectrum stuff as an expansion of the mythos, but rather changing it into something else at the expense of what had already been there.

Trey Strain 03-01-2019 11:25 PM

Geoff Johns was supposed to be the great restorer. He was supposed to make Green Lantern the way it was before Emerald Twilight, and to find a place for Kyle.

But he DID NOT do that. He made it all about HIS STUFF.

At this point, I don't even know whether I'd include Kyle in a reboot. Probably not.

Star-Lantern 03-02-2019 08:45 AM

He had success with Sinestro Corps War and then kept doing the same thing. In a way, Geoff Johns was creatively bankrupt after Sinestro Corps War, at least where Green Lantern is concerned. But his comics kept selling, and it's my opinion that over the course of nearly a decade of his wars, and then having Robert Venditti attempt the same thing but execute it probably even worse (but, I dunno', Robert Venditti put out a lot of bad comics, but I don't know if anything is as bad as that First Lantern stuff), eventually wore the franchise out. When you put Baz and Cruz on top of that then Johns strip mined and wrecked it.

It's the same story as WCW Monday Nitro. You're on fire one minute and bigger than ever, then out of business the next, largely because you kept doing the same thing over and over again and eventually the product no longer resembled itself. In this analogy, Geoff Johns plays the role of both Eric Bischoff and Kevin Nash, and the Emotional Spectrum is the NWO.
And even though that was really big, when people look back at WCW, they think fondly of the Horsemen.


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