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Can One Man Lead the GLC?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mister Ed View Post
    Actually, aside from Geoff, I've been pretty happy with how other writers handled the Guardians. Well, OK, maybe Marz's handling was poor, too, what with them being idiots in ET, and then dead, then babies, but I at least liked Ganthet, and their time being dead was presumably not something he got to choose.

    And the X-men aren't supposed to be protecting the entire universe, with powers given to them deliberately by those in charge. I think the analogy falls apart. I think the GLC really SHOULD have the Guardians.
    The Guardians wish to protect the universe, but it's always been the Lanterns doing all the work. The Corps can live the dream without them like they're doing now, it could just be done better. With something returning like the Book of Oa and a new 10 Laws, things would run much smoother without them and there's much more story potential. All the Guardians were ever good for were being cryptic and prophesying future events. Otherwise every story leads to them or one of them in particular being a bad guy.

    And the Guardians let a ring go to a dude named Sinestro. For immortals, they're idiots.

    ~//V\\~

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    • #17
      Eh, to each there own. I'd be happier with actual Guardians filling the role you would leave to the Book of Oa. And why not? After all, aren't we to presume that the Guardians CREATED the Book of Oa? As to them being idiots...well they don't have to be, and usually aren't portrayed as such. And Sinestro as evidence of their idiocy? Nah. I'd say the relative LACK of GLs that went bad, given the huge amount of power they wield, and the effect power so often has on people, argues for them being pretty smart, actually. I don't put much stock in the notion that they should have judged him based on his NAME.

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      • #18
        cough *Manhunters murdered an entire space sector* cough

        ^^^Testament to their idiocy.

        I wouldn't give a weapon to a guy named Joey Psycho or trust a guy named William Murderface with my life.... but I guess I'm in the minority LOL

        And if the Oans know all, then they should've known most of the good supervillains have a mustache... Krona, Sinestro, that GL who went evil in Kyle's New Corps, etc... Only way Sinestro would've looked more sinister is if he was petting a Persian cat...

        ~//V\\~

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        • #19
          Originally posted by -//V\\- View Post
          cough *Manhunters murdered an entire space sector* cough

          ^^^Testament to their idiocy.

          I wouldn't give a weapon to a guy named Joey Psycho or trust a guy named William Murderface with my life.... but I guess I'm in the minority LOL

          And if the Oans know all, then they should've known most of the good supervillains have a mustache... Krona, Sinestro, that GL who went evil in Kyle's New Corps, etc... Only way Sinestro would've looked more sinister is if he was petting a Persian cat...

          ~//V\\~
          The thing with the Manhunters just shows that they can make mistakes, and that when you work on a grand scale your mistakes can have repercussions that are equally large. And in fact, the Manhunters actually WORKED for thousands of years, so the mistake was a long time in revealing itself. (It also goes to show that creating a race of sentient robots is never a good idea, but back when the GUARDIANS did it, none of the examples we have to show us that were around yet. )They learned from that mistake and followed it up with successes that spanned a greater amount of time than humanity has had control of fire.

          It is also worth noting that the Manhunters destroying all life in a sector was a retcon by Geoff Johns. Prior to that they had rebelled, but there was no mention of the event having that kind of death toll. If I recall correctly, originally they turned on the Guardians, and the Guardians took them down in short order. No mention of a huge massacre. But since Geoff's plan was to make the Guardians look as incompetent and evil as possible, so people would be fine with it when he got rid of them, he deliberately played up their mistakes to be much larger (and created new ones). Looks like his strategy worked on you.
          Mister Ed
          Horse of a Different Color
          Last edited by Mister Ed; 04-21-2017, 10:44 PM.

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          • #20
            I was only ever a fan of Ganthet, but in reality he wasn't even around for 99% of the Kyle era.

            The X-Men can live on without Prof. X. SHIELD can survive without Nick Fury. Batman doesn't need Robin. And the GLC can make it without the Guardians.

            ~//V\\~

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            • #21
              Originally posted by -//V\\- View Post
              I was only ever a fan of Ganthet, but in reality he wasn't even around for 99% of the Kyle era.

              The X-Men can live on without Prof. X. SHIELD can survive without Nick Fury. Batman doesn't need Robin. And the GLC can make it without the Guardians.

              ~//V\\~
              Eh, I disagree, but you know that by now.

              I'm not saying the comic can't SELL without the Guardians, or that it can't tell interesting stories. I'm just saying that, as I understand the purpose of the GLC, without SOMETHING in the Guardian role it is just too implausible to me that they would actually have much of an impact on the universe as a whole. John Stewart, much as I like the character (or at least, liked earlier iterations a whole lot...not so much lately, since he hasn't been very interesting of late), doesn't have the knowledge or experience I feel is needed to make running a universal force for justice and order practical, and while I feel like a council would be better, it doesn't work for me either. The GLC is such a grandiose concept (ludicrous really, if you think of the scale of it) that I feel like it needs some kind of Deus ex Machina behind the scenes in charge to make it seem like it could really work.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Mister Ed View Post
                ... It is also worth noting that the Manhunters destroying all life in a sector was a retcon by Geoff Johns. ... But since Geoff's plan was to make the Guardians look as incompetent and evil as possible, so people would be fine with it when he got rid of them, he deliberately played up their mistakes to be much larger (and created new ones). Looks like his strategy worked on you.
                It's funny how some of the Geoffcons have become accepted lore. It also seems to be generally believed that GLs overcome fear (not that they're fearless) and always have. And Geoff's characterization of Hal as a total womanizing horndog made it to the movie. Before Geoff, Hal had a number of girlfriends but not more than most heroes and he was never a one-night-stand kind of guy before vol. 4.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mister Ed View Post
                  Eh, I disagree, but you know that by now.

                  I'm not saying the comic can't SELL without the Guardians, or that it can't tell interesting stories. I'm just saying that, as I understand the purpose of the GLC, without SOMETHING in the Guardian role it is just too implausible to me that they would actually have much of an impact on the universe as a whole. John Stewart, much as I like the character (or at least, liked earlier iterations a whole lot...not so much lately, since he hasn't been very interesting of late), doesn't have the knowledge or experience I feel is needed to make running a universal force for justice and order practical, and while I feel like a council would be better, it doesn't work for me either. The GLC is such a grandiose concept (ludicrous really, if you think of the scale of it) that I feel like it needs some kind of Deus ex Machina behind the scenes in charge to make it seem like it could really work.
                  The Deus ex Machina that is the Guardians just leads to more confusion though when you get down to it. They always have plans for whatever the universe has in it's future but then something always goes to shit that they somehow didn't see coming with all their grande power. Sure that works once or twice but now we've seen it to death. The only times that the Guardians were worth a damn, IMHO, was when they were BEHIND the scenes behind the scenes. You maybe saw them or heard something about them once or twice a year. And when you DID see them, it was when one was communicating with a Lantern like Hal or it was one of those "oh shit, the Guardians came outside?!?" situations like Willy Wonka.

                  I'm fine with the Guardians being around and having an impact without taking away four pages of character development from other characters every other issue. The Guardians have had like 100x the panel time that Hal's former civilian life has had since he returned from the grave even before the New52. The editors of the GL books should be ashamed of that fact after they made such a big deal about getting him back to basics and his test pilot roots.

                  And where we're at now in the comics with so few GL's left, John joining forces with the Sinestros, and Baz and Jess not even getting involved with what's going on with the rest of the Corps... it makes absolutely no sense. The Renegade Hal arc made more sense than this direction.

                  ~//V\\~

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Space Cop View Post
                    It's funny how some of the Geoffcons have become accepted lore. It also seems to be generally believed that GLs overcome fear (not that they're fearless) and always have. And Geoff's characterization of Hal as a total womanizing horndog made it to the movie. Before Geoff, Hal had a number of girlfriends but not more than most heroes and he was never a one-night-stand kind of guy before vol. 4.
                    Everything's become accepted lore because everything is almost ten years old in the comics and they're still milking it for everything they can like it was still 2010. Until a massive reboot of the GL franchise happens or Geoff himself rewrites their corner of the universe ala Flashpoint, I don't expect any of the stuff introduced since the Sinestro Corps War to get written off. Had Geoff not written it himself, Larfleeze would've never went from such a force of nature in the Vega System to being a comical thief of a character.

                    Geoff is a great creator and can take inspiration from anything when creating new material to expand a universe of characters and concepts, but when other writers try to follow him on titles it's always disastrous. The Others in Aquaman were incredible! The Others written by Dan Jurgens... not so much. Rage of the Red Lanterns was good, and written by Geoff. The Red Lanterns title during the New52? Not what I was looking for... it DID last a bit longer than I expected it to though. JSA by Geoff IMHO was some incredible work 90% of the time, but even creators as well received as Jerry Ordway and James Robinson couldn't get the fans hooked like Geoff.

                    ~//V\\~

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                    • #25
                      For me, the franchise is off course and needs to be reigned in. The mythology suffers without the Guardians and Oa. They need to come back. And having the Corps be depleted of members beyond belief has become VERY stale. It seems like only at one point since before COIE has the Corps' ranks been at full capacity. And that was a very brief moment during the beginning of Johns' run.

                      I don't think one human should run the GLC, nor ANY humans. Not even one or a few Guardians. There needs to be dozens of them again.

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                      • #26
                        Think about a television series. It can't depend on one particular writer, because a series uses up too far much material for that to be feasible. A series has to have a concept that's simple, clear and rich enough in story-producing potential that any competent writer can turn out good episodes for it.

                        When I hear comics readers say that only one particular writer can make a comic work, what I hear is that the concept of the comic isn't viable.

                        So what happened to Green Lantern? Why was its concept perfectly viable from 1959 until 1994, when DC bizarrely decided to nuke it, and why has the company not been able to get it back to where it once belonged?

                        The answer is that Geoff Johns doesn't really want to write Green Lantern. He makes up new stuff that's very loosely based on Green Lantern and that gets people excited for a while, but has no staying power. And even he can't make the changes he invents work for long, let alone can anyone who tries to follow him.

                        The answer is, they need to go back to writing Green Lantern. No reinvention of that wheel is going to roll.
                        Trey Strain
                        Guardian of the Universe
                        Last edited by Trey Strain; 04-22-2017, 08:35 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by -//V\\- View Post
                          The Deus ex Machina that is the Guardians just leads to more confusion though when you get down to it. They always have plans for whatever the universe has in it's future but then something always goes to shit that they somehow didn't see coming with all their grande power. Sure that works once or twice but now we've seen it to death. The only times that the Guardians were worth a damn, IMHO, was when they were BEHIND the scenes behind the scenes. You maybe saw them or heard something about them once or twice a year. And when you DID see them, it was when one was communicating with a Lantern like Hal or it was one of those "oh shit, the Guardians came outside?!?" situations like Willy Wonka.

                          I'm fine with the Guardians being around and having an impact without taking away four pages of character development from other characters every other issue. The Guardians have had like 100x the panel time that Hal's former civilian life has had since he returned from the grave even before the New52. The editors of the GL books should be ashamed of that fact after they made such a big deal about getting him back to basics and his test pilot roots.

                          And where we're at now in the comics with so few GL's left, John joining forces with the Sinestros, and Baz and Jess not even getting involved with what's going on with the rest of the Corps... it makes absolutely no sense. The Renegade Hal arc made more sense than this direction.

                          ~//V\\~
                          I'd be on board with the Guardians being mostly behind the scenes. I just think they need to exist and be the organizing force behind the GLC. The trend you note of the Guardians taking up so much panel time? I didn't enjoy that either, mostly because they seemed to be taking up panel time in an effort to show the reader how bad they were, and I could have done without THAT trend (thanks Geoff!) completely. To me, the ideal Guardians are essentially benevolent, perhaps a bit out of touch with mortal concerns, but ultimately wise and possessing virtually limitless knowledge. They aren't the GL's pals, but they can generally be trusted. When they make mistakes, they shouldn't be so boneheaded that the reader is rolling their eyes, they should be things that I, if I'm honest, feel like I could have gotten wrong myself...or things that I wouldn't have even attempted to get right because I know my limitations, but which the Guardians felt compelled to attempt because they have less limitations and have taken on a frightening amount of responsibility.

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                          • #28
                            The AI of Central Power Battery should run the GLC. It should choose new Lanterns and occasionally hand out assignments. The Guardians should be ascended beings who remain in this universe but are beyond everything. The CPB and the GLC are their departing gifts to those they left behind.

                            The CBP can't be second-guessed or bitched at the way the Guardians were. It won't be a source of cheap conflict for the writers. That's the beauty of it.
                            Trey Strain
                            Guardian of the Universe
                            Last edited by Trey Strain; 04-22-2017, 12:54 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I thought Mogo was the driving force behind the rings selecting new Lanterns, not the CPB?

                              Getting basic info during missions from the ring's AI is one thing, but it shouldn't have EVERYTHING. The Book of Oa is a much better plot point than simply saying the CPB can do all of this other stuff.

                              I've always wondered what it'd be like for Stel to jack into the battery.

                              ~//V\\~

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by -//V\\- View Post
                                I thought Mogo was the driving force behind the rings selecting new Lanterns, not the CPB?

                                Getting basic info during missions from the ring's AI is one thing, but it shouldn't have EVERYTHING. The Book of Oa is a much better plot point than simply saying the CPB can do all of this other stuff.

                                I've always wondered what it'd be like for Stel to jack into the battery.

                                ~//V\\~
                                I wonder if it would be as trippy as what happened to Hal in the Graphic Novel "Will World".

                                I remember once trying to figure out how many times Hal has gone into the CPB. I think I came up with 6 or 7 times, but I could have missed one or two. He might as well move in and start decorating, as often as he ends up in there.

                                As to the ring's selection, that has varied over the years. Mogo being involved was a relatively recent development (though was retconned to have been the case for quite some time). I think at various times the Guardians have decided who got them, the rings' AI has decided, or (as in Hal's first origin), the ring simply evaluated candidates based on criteria supplied by the ring's previous owner. Other than the Mogo thing, I could see all those versions coexisting, depending on individual circumstances. Once they retconned it into being Mogo who did it, it seemed like somehow the process was just totally stymied when Mogo wasn't available.
                                Mister Ed
                                Horse of a Different Color
                                Last edited by Mister Ed; 04-22-2017, 03:35 PM.

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