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  • #16
    One of the things I enjoy about the Nolan Batman trilogy is how real everything looked. It was as close as possible to what batman would really be like. On top of that, the world looks like the real world.

    Compared to the Burton/Schumacher Batman movies, nearly every scene is obviously in a studio, or at best, the backlot. Everything feels so fake and flimsy to me, like at any moment a wall is going to fall over and we'll see the city is make out of cardboard and paper machete.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Big Daddy Dave Skywalker View Post
      One of the things I enjoy about the Nolan Batman trilogy is how real everything looked. It was as close as possible to what batman would really be like. On top of that, the world looks like the real world...
      I get that, but that's the exact thing that bothers me about them. I think they eschew what makes a comic book a comic book. They set it in such a real world (and I think I might have posted this before) that the first time Rachel sees Bruce as Batman, squatting on that railing and doing that stupid voice that she should laugh in his face or run from an obvious maniac. It doesn't work in the real world for me. It's like trying to do Rudolph the Rednosed Reindeer in a methadone clinic. I always say that I'm glad Nolan never did my favorite baddie, Riddler. I'm sure he would've made him a smack-addicted killer that asks no riddles.

      When I watch the Nolan Bat movies I don't think "wow, how real Gotham looks!" I just think "that's clearly Chicago."

      And I love studio sets. I love the old westerns where the cowboys are clearly on a stage with planted trees and black backdrops. Artifice is art.

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      • #18
        I definitely agree that the Snyder-verse didn't work, but it was ambitious and took risks. I also agree that Dick Donner set a wonderful template for the brighter characters of the DCEU.

        I wanted Billy Zane as Lex because of his performance in "Titanic."

        Personally, I think you can blame the "Green Lantern" movie for the DCEU being light on humor and more dark and gritty as it made the WB gun shy.

        And I don't think dark and gritty is the DCEU's problem as "Logan" has been proven to be both a critical and box office success.

        The DCEU should take a look at their DCTV Universe and note that they are character driven and embrace the source material. I mean, the first two parts of the "Crisis On Earth X" were amazingly fun.

        So, the DC Films need to be character driven and celebrate them. "Man of Steel" and "Batman v. Superman" mourn their characters.

        Additionally, comic book films in general have raise their standards over the years, so it's just not enough to put actors in costumes and have them punch their way to victory.
        You just witnessed the strength of geek knowledge. N.W.A., Nerd With Attitude. Straight out of Vulcan!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Darth_Primus View Post
          ...I wanted Billy Zane as Lex because of his performance in "Titanic." . .
          Aww. Not for his part in Tales from the Crypt: Demon Night?!

          + YouTube Video
          ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Space Cop View Post
            Aww. Not for his part in Tales from the Crypt: Demon Night?!

            + YouTube Video
            ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
            That was awesome!

            I don't recall seeing that film.
            You just witnessed the strength of geek knowledge. N.W.A., Nerd With Attitude. Straight out of Vulcan!

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            • #21
              I saw that in the theater!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by -//V\\- View Post
                What DC films need...
                ~//V\\~
                1. LESS CGI. Everything doesn't need to be an obvious CGI fest. For Fetchitwulf, they could have easily cast a big guy with a deep, powerful voice instead of going CGI crazy. Sometimes less is more.

                2. Better situational villains. Justice League's villain sucked, Suicide Squad's main villain sucked and so did Ares in the WW movie... and so on and so forth.

                3. STICK TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL. Nuff said.

                4. Better editing/pacing. The JL movie seemed so rushed with their editing that it looked like a project that an elementary school kid created. With a giant budget the least they could have done was polish the edges before releasing. I have a hard time believing that the final version received a golden seal of approval as opposed to, "just submit it!"

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Darth_Primus View Post
                  Personally, I think you can blame the "Green Lantern" movie for the DCEU being light on humor and more dark and gritty as it made the WB gun shy.
                  I believe that was certainly a contributor, but not the only factor. I think it was also the reception WB got from Superman Returns as well as the success of the darker Christopher Nolan Batman films.

                  As for what WB should do going forward ... eh. If I was in their shoes, I'd just see how Aquaman does and then make a decision based on that. If it doesn't perform well, I would call it quits on the films for a while (barring Wonder Woman) and try to resurrect the more or less defunct action cartoon genre with these comic book characters, beginning with a Superman cartoon, which I would call Superman in ACTION! (you heard it here first if someone rips that off ) It would have to be really, really, REALLY good to galvanize that genre and market again. No silly, exaggerated art style or overly goofy presentation. Just an intelligent, well done cartoon show that both children and adults could enjoy.

                  I would at least try to get something like that going because pretty much nothing is being done with action cartoons, and if WB could get some to work, they would be the king over there instead of trying to play catch up to Marvel and getting thoroughly trounced each time. And WB has all these properties that are perfect for entertainment like that.
                  ZATSWAN.COM Zatswan: Multiversal Guardian, the brand new cosmic comic book, now available!

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                  • #24
                    Sadly it seems like they are forced to put that kind of thing on Cartoon Network, which doesn't seem to want it, preferring the weird and goofy. Both GL and Young Justice were good programs that got shafted by lack of support on Cartoon Network.

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                    • #25
                      After watching Marvel's "Infinity War" trailer and hearing the line "get this man a shield" and then seeing Steve Rogers step out of the shadow made me realize what the biggest misstep in the DCEU was, and it's summed up in the word, "earn." Which is something that comic book writer, Mark Waid, said about his emotional distraught of Superman snapping Zod's neck in "Man of Steel."

                      The MCU earned that line and "Infinity War" as it took it's time to develop their character and build their world and more importantly, give their characters pivotal and defining moments.

                      With Steve Rogers, via "Captain America: The First Avenger" we see him be defined with moments like this:



                      And when Steve Rogers was asked, "Do you want to kill Nazis?" he replied:



                      Thus, defining Captain America's moral code and values.

                      The DCEU was built on "Man of Steel" and "Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice." In "Man of Steel" and "BvS," Superman was always mired in the world's negative reaction to a super powered alien, which was highlighted in characters like Pa Kent and Batman. As such, the films portrayed being Superman as burden than a gift. There's a "vision" sequence in "BvS" where Clark is on a peak of a mountain and has a vision of Pa Kent and Pa Kent tells Clark about a time when there was a flood that threaten his farm as a kid and he and his dad got some shovels and where about to channel the flood water away and thus saving his farm and his grandmother baked a cake to celebrate. However, it was later learned, that Pa Kent's action resulted in flooding the Lang farm and washed it away. Through two movies, Superman never earned the right to be joyful. Superman was never defined by his own moral values or code of ethics, but rather other defining for him.


                      I agree with Mark Waid when he said that the movie "Man of Steel" didn't earn the moment when Superman snaps Zod's neck in his quote:

                      As Superman’s having his final one-on-one battle with Zod, show me that he’s going out of his way to save people from getting caught in the middle. SHOW ME that trying to simultaneously protect humans and beat Zod is achingly, achingly costing Superman the fight. Build to that moment of the hard choice…show me, without doubt, that Superman has no other out and do a better job of convincing me that it’s a hard decision to make, and maybe I’ll give it to you. But even if I do? It’s not a victory. Not this sad, soul-darkening, utterly sans-catharsis “triumph” that doesn’t even feel like a win so much as a stop-loss. Two and a half hours, and I never once got the sense that Superman really achieved or earned anything.
                      I don't think the Snyder-verse built a world that was better off with the arrival of Superman.

                      I don't think the Snyder-verse earned the "Martha" resolution.

                      I don't think the Snyder-verse earned the privilege of telling the "Death of Superman" story.

                      I don't think the Snyder-verse earned the newspaper headline



                      "A World Without Hope" because it never really offered any.

                      I don't think the Snyder-verse earned any emotional investment from the general movie going audience in its characters or stories.

                      The Snyder-verse is filled with visuals and some cool action pieces, but it lacks earning the general public's interest in these characters.
                      You just witnessed the strength of geek knowledge. N.W.A., Nerd With Attitude. Straight out of Vulcan!

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                      • #26
                        I think DC's biggest failure was not completely establishing their universe before making Justice League. The movie felt like a panicked frenzy to catch up with Marvel as opposed to working at their own pace to build the foundation.

                        Aquaman and Flash, cornerstones and founding members of the league should have at least had their own solo movies before colliding worlds. Had that happened, they wouldn't have had to spend precious screen time on their albeit brief backstories and perhaps they could have used that time and given us a reason to care about Cyborg. That time would have additionally given them more bandwidth to spend on Steppenwolf and to iron out the film's other many wrinkles.

                        JL was like taking the Fast & Furious franchise, making part 1 & 2, then skipping (Tokyo Drift and part 4) onto Fast 5.

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                        • #27
                          Batman v Superman v Captain America: Civil War - Why One Worked and One Didn’t

                          Want to know why ‘Batman v Superman’ failed where ‘Captain America: Civil War’ succeeded? This video compares both movies, and finds that one scene they both share made all the difference.
                          + YouTube Video
                          ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
                          You just witnessed the strength of geek knowledge. N.W.A., Nerd With Attitude. Straight out of Vulcan!

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                          • #28
                            The new answer to Kevin Fiege should be Bruce Timm. Look what he did crafting the animated DCU around the Justice League. From a story standpoint he could see the bigger picture because he actually gets it.

                            Another thing Marvel quit attempting was making movie tie in video games. With DC/WB already in good with Rockstar and the success of Arkham games.... they need to start trying to appeal to that audience again.

                            ~//V\\~

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Darth_Primus View Post
                              I agree with Mark Waid when he said that the movie "Man of Steel" didn't earn the moment when Superman snaps Zod's neck in his quote:



                              I don't think the Snyder-verse built a world that was better off with the arrival of Superman.

                              I don't think the Snyder-verse earned the "Martha" resolution.

                              I don't think the Snyder-verse earned the privilege of telling the "Death of Superman" story.

                              I don't think the Snyder-verse earned the newspaper headline



                              "A World Without Hope" because it never really offered any.

                              I don't think the Snyder-verse earned any emotional investment from the general movie going audience in its characters or stories.

                              The Snyder-verse is filled with visuals and some cool action pieces, but it lacks earning the general public's interest in these characters.
                              I never had a problem with Superman snapping Zod's neck (he literally killed him in the comics) but the rest... you're not wrong about. Though the Martha thing didn't bother me as much as it did a lot of people.

                              Most of the more fundamental problems with the direction of the DCEU weren't really Snyder's fault, though. Do BvS: Dawn of Justice and doing it as a JL backdoor lead-in? That wasn't Snyder's idea, he wanted to do Man of Steel 2 but WB wanted to course correct and rush into JL... so he adjusted course to suit. And obviously JL is about 90% not his movie.

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                              • #30
                                Warner should just sell DC to, I don't know, Dreamworks.

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