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Old 11-29-2017, 08:34 PM   #326
Trey Strain
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Geoff Johns will be a producer of not just one but two of the top 15 money losers of all time.

Who in their right mind would let him produce another movie?

http://www.clipd.com/stories/1842/15...lost-millions/

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Old 11-30-2017, 12:58 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
Geoff Johns will be a producer of not just one but two of the top 15 money losers of all time.

Who in their right mind would let him produce another movie?

http://www.clipd.com/stories/1842/15...lost-millions/
On the flip side he architected their successful TV franchise and re-wrote the script for Wonder Woman with Patty Jenkins on set.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:59 AM   #328
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The Wrap: How ‘Justice League’ Became a ‘Frankenstein’
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“Justice League” had a lot of enemies: a looming corporate merger, a family tragedy, an internal clash between light and dark. But its greatest enemy was time.

Few people are happy with the finished project, which one insider called “a Frankenstein” made of the assembled parts favored by rotating executives and directors. But several people who spoke to TheWrap said the decision to keep the film’s Nov. 17 release date was a mistake — one as plain as Superman’s face.

Specifically, the weird, computer-generated look of his face — just one byproduct of the film’s rushed schedule. Here, according to insiders, is the story of how “Justice League” just ran out of time.

The Dark Knight

Despite the assembled might of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Aquaman, and The Flash, “Justice League” had Warner Bros.’ worst opening for a DC Comics-based movie in years. It’s easy to forget now, but the disappointment of “Justice League” began with success.

When Christopher Nolan completed his celebrated “Dark Knight” trilogy, a hyperreal re-imagining of Batman, Warner Bros. hoped he would turn next to rebooting Superman.

But Nolan opted out, instead supporting Zack Snyder to direct the Superman reboot “Man of Steel.” Like the Snyders, Nolan and his wife, producer Emma Thomas, made films together. They were about the same age. They got along.

Snyder seemed like a good fit. He had directed the comics adaptations “Watchmen” and the surprise hit “300,” the latter of which was inspired by the work of Frank Miller, who reinvented Batman with the 1980s stories “Year One” and “The Dark Knight Returns.”

Snyder appears to have enjoyed as much freedom in his vision of the DC Universe as Nolan had enjoyed with his Batman films. He answered to Greg Silverman, the Warner Bros. executive who guided hits like “The Dark Knight,” “The Hangover” and “300.” In 2013, Silverman was named Warner Bros. president, reporting directly to Warner Bros. CEO Kevin Tsujihara.

An individual with deep knowledge of the studio said Silverman didn’t read offer notes on Snyder’s scripts. Another described Silverman’s attitude as “remarkably laissez faire.”

These qualities might have been praised if Snyder’s films were universally loved: Executives are usually criticized for meddling too much, not too little. No one complained that Nolan had too much freedom on “The Dark Knight.”

Silverman declined to comment.

Man of Steel

Snyder’s nihilistic tone may have made sense for Batman, a vigilante driven by grim determination. But many fans found it jarring for Superman, a character known for hope and optimism. When Superman broke an enemy’s neck at the end of 2013’s “Man of Steel,” many purists felt that Snyder had misunderstood the hero entirely, believing he would never stoop to the level of his evil adversaries.

The sequel, 2016’s “Batman v Superman,” was even darker. One insider called it “the darkest of the dark of the dark.” What could be darker than Superman killing? How about Superman dying? “Batman v Superman” ended with him in the grave.

“Batman v Superman” had scored the second-highest opening of 2016, behind only “Captain America: Civil War.” But the buzz was bad: After its $166 million opening weekend, second weekend totals dropped 69 percent to $51 million. Soon after, “Suicide Squad” disappointed with another grim, dystopian vision of the DC Universe.

“This just goes to show you how much the brand has eroded since ‘Batman v Superman.’ That was supposed to be the precursor to something even more momentous, but that never ended up happening because of how badly ‘BvS’ performed. The word of mouth has just been toxic,” said Jeff Bock, Senior Box Office Analyst at Exhibitor Relations.

After the disappointment of “Batman v Superman,” the individual with deep knowledge of Warner Bros. said studio executives repeatedly went to Silverman to suggest removing Snyder from “Justice League.” The individual said DC President Jon Berg was sent to the set for the better part of a year to oversee the production out of budget concerns.

Warner Bros. declined comment for this story.

The insider said Silverman was “quite harsh on Zack” when “Batman v Superman” underwhelmed audiences. But he didn’t fire him: Removing a director is a major distraction on any film, and it would be a sign of serious trouble on a tentpole designed to support a larger universe.

“They were already in deep prep on ‘Justice League’ and it would have cost a fortune. There’s stickiness to a director because there’s so much cost to unstick him,” the insider said. “Warners is a studio that almost to a fault always wants to project strength.”

Asked who ultimately decided to keep Snyder on, the insider said: “It wasn’t Greg’s decision. This was all happening on a Tsujihara level.”

In December, Silverman stepped down as president of Warner Bros. Pictures, and was replaced by Toby Emmerich.

Light v. Dark

This is the part comic-book fans probably might not care about, but it’s crucial: In October of 2016, Warner Bros. announced plans to merge with AT&T, and the companies began sizing up each other’s assets and liabilities.

Moving the date of a tentpole film like “Justice League” could have projected weakness. A hit would project strength. And Warner Bros. expected a hit.

The studio had become vocal about wanting “Justice League” to have a light tone, like the one director Joss Whedon had struck for rival Disney’s Marvel Universe blockbuster superhero team-up “The Avengers.” Whedon was enlisted, with Snyder’s blessing, to help add some levity and fun to the script for “Justice League.”

In the spring, while Snyder and Warner Bros. were engaged in a push-pull over the right amount of light and darkness in “Justice League,” true tragedy struck.

Zack and Deborah Snyder’s daughter died by suicide.

At first, an insider said, the director’s plan was that “work was gonna be kind of a refuge.”

But then it wasn’t. Snyder was under added pressure because Warner Bros. was embracing “the lighter, different, more confectionary ideas of Joss,” the insider said. “It stopped being a good situation on any level.”

And so in May, Snyder left “Justice League” to focus on his family, and, eventually, a more personal project, the film “Last Photograph,” with Warners’ support.

And Whedon took over the project.

But time was running out.

The Merger and the Mustache

Soon after Snyder left “Justice League,” Warner Bros. got another sign that its movies didn’t have to be bleak: Patty Jenkin’s “Wonder Woman” shook off Snyder’s violent, monochromatic vision of the DC Universe with a fun, uplifting lead character, winning critical praise and performing above expectations at the box office.

Whedon had to choose between continuing Snyder’s vision or lightening up “Justice League” as much as he could.

Or at least, as much as he could by Nov. 17.

Scheduling was intense: “Superman” actor Henry Cavill, on loan from shooting “Mission: Impossible 6” for Paramount, was not allowed to shave a mustache he had grown for that film, so “Justice League” was forced to remove it digitally. Fans would later complain that his face looked weird.

One executive told TheWrap Tsujihara and Emmerich “wanted to preserve their bonuses they would be paid before the merger,” and were worried that “if they pushed the movie, then their bonuses would have been pushed to the following year and they might not still be at the studio.”

Another knowledgable insider said that at the highest levels of Warner Bros., bonuses are awarded “for making good decisions.” If delaying a film is the right decision, an executive could be rewarded for it.

Frankenstein

The final version of “Justice League,” a compromise between Snyder’s vision and Whedon’s, left few people completely satisfied. (TheWrap’s Phil Owen recently studied the finished film to guess how much of the final vision belonged to each director.)

“I think Warner Bros. biggest misstep was not pushing the release of ‘Justice League’ when Snyder had to step aside,” the executive told TheWrap.

More than 100,000 fans agreed, by signing a petition calling on Warners to release Snyder’s version of the film.

But audiences weren’t wild about Snyder’s last pure Snyder film, either. For now, his rein over DC movies is over.

Matt Reeves is currently writing and steering “The Batman,” Jenkins recently closed a deal to return on the “Wonder Woman” sequel, to be set during the Cold War, and “Shazam” is under the guidance of “Lights Out” filmmaker David F. Sandberg.

Who can lead Warner Bros. out of the dark waters?

Aquaman, the studio hopes. The film, directed by James Wan, is due for release next December.
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Old 11-30-2017, 04:17 AM   #329
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Frankenstein’s MONSTER! JL became Frankenstein’s MONSTER!
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:06 AM   #330
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Re Johns, Wonder Woman is an incident. Green Lantern, BvS, Suicide Squad and Justice League are a pattern

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Old 11-30-2017, 08:07 PM   #331
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I felt the "Justice League" movie iteration of Batman was more Bruce Wayne and therefore reminded me of George Clooney's Batman in the respect that Bruce has moved on from the death of this parents, MARTHA!, and Jason Todd. However, dude was afraid to speak with Diana and misses Superman dearly.

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Old 11-30-2017, 10:48 PM   #332
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Yo.

honestly, I liked it more than BvS & MoS, but it falls under WW and SS respectively; it had some very good action sequences (the Amazons playing "keep away" w/Steppenwolf was 1, and the "humanity vs Steppenwolf" was the other), but a lot of the time I was just kinda _there_. nothing much really drew me in beyond Supes soloing the group & Bruce tongue-spanking Diana in the Bat-hangar (if I can get clips of those 2 scenes, I'd never have to watch the movie ever again (and would be completely of w/that.)

I thought Momoa played a fairly decent "warrior king" Arthur, but *ZOMG!* they need to both tone down Millers' B.A. as a fanboy shut-in (who, somehow w/o a hint of being employed, had all that shit INCLUDING a suit made w/NASA-material?!??), and then DEFINITELY a need to tweak how his Flash comes off (the lightning went *everywhere* instead of simply trailing him, that pseudo-water they added for his slo-mo SS-movement just made me think he was running in Aquamans environment, and the actor himself looked like he was prancing (as if thru a flower field) in 1 shot. in short: I HATED HIM.

as for everybody else, they were meh; nothing really strong to say either + or - in regards to their performances.....which went along with the movie itself.

lets hope *whatever* comes next from WB/DCMU is much, MUCH more engaging....... :/

on the TMW3-review scale, Id give it a 2.1 outta 5





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Old 12-01-2017, 05:08 PM   #333
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Harsh...

Looks like I'm one of the few that actually enjoyed the film. My expectations must have been drastically lower than everyone else's; I expected this to be far worse than BvS, which I HATED, so when the movie was fun and somewhat passable, I was pleasantly surprised.

I didn't like Miller's Flash at all. He was too goofy, quippy and talkative like Spiderman or Wally West in JLU. For the next installment, if there is one, they need to seriously tone his act down. #notmybarryallen

For Cyborg, besides the way cool tech, I really didn't have much of a reason to like or care about him... and his alien-ish design was too much for me. They should have given him his more simple end look to begin with. While he played a pretty big role, he still just seemed like the token character to me.

Lois and everyone else calling Superman "Clark" in public drove me crazy... and Batman giving away his identity... Geez. There must be no secret identities in this universe or just sloppy writing... and how are they going to explain Clark coming back from the dead conveniently the same time Superman is reborn?

The whole Superman moustache thing didn't bother me at all as I wasn't focused on looking for it. I don't know why it was such a big deal to begin with. I'm sure he could have shaved and used a fake 'stache for his other movie, unless it was written in his contract that it had to be authentic..?

I could nitpick JL apart, but for all its faults and gaffes, I still enjoyed the movie and thought it was good fun. I sincerely hope the Blu-ray comes with all the additional footage left on the cutting room floor to piece together the whole movie without those atrocious edits.
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Old 12-01-2017, 06:14 PM   #334
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The "Justice League" movie is really another "Suicide Squad" film where you get a band of heroes to fight a big bad guy.

I summed up my opinion of the movie like this, A-List characters doing their thing in a "C-" script set against "D+" cinematic CGI. I mean, the look of the film in trailers and TV spots reminded me of the Star Wars prequels.

"Justice League" is a flat and predictable movie as there's not twists or revelations to be had. And the conclusion to the final battle with Steppenwolf is really unsatisfying in that... they made him afraid and had the stench of fear all over him. You'd think they could come up with something better than that.

There are some good action pieces with the A-List characters, which I think most people are clinging onto in giving this movie a positive reaction.

I've seen the movie twice and was very disappointed with the first viewing. The second viewing I just focused on the characters in action and was more satisfied.

Overall, I found "Justice League" as a mediocre film.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:18 PM   #335
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Yo.

Q: in BvS we're lead to think that Supes could/would possibly resuscitate himself after being buried, but come JL we learned that he would *atleast* need a Mother Box and a "Flash zap" to bring him back.....so wat Id like to know is: was the scene that we got how Snyder intended to play that off, or was that 1 of the re-workings which came from Whedon being brought on-board??

if its Whedons work, then I suppose I can swallow it down better than if this was how Snyder intended to do Supes' rebirth all along......





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Old 12-07-2017, 07:41 PM   #336
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Saw it earlier today, I have to say, I enjoyed it. I think Wonder Woman's still my favourite DCEU film but this is a very close second. I disagree with people disliking the Flash and finding him over the top, but I can also see why people feel that way. I feel the compromise between Synder's usual darker tone and Whedon's lighter tone actually benefitted the film, as it was neither too far one way or the other, a good balance. I'm not sure who my favourite Leaguer is, I don't think there's really a weak chain, if there is though it's probably Superman to be fair. Also, was pleased to see the cameo by a Green Lantern at the flashback scene. Does anyone know which Lantern that is?
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:44 PM   #337
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Yo.

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Also, was pleased to see the cameo by a Green Lantern at the flashback scene. Does anyone know which Lantern that is?
http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/...&postcount=324




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Old 12-08-2017, 01:15 AM   #338
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Fallout from Justice League.

Takeaways:
  • Berg is out
  • Johns demoted to his pre BvS role
  • Affleck will probably reprise his role as Batman for Flashpoint but will be gone after that
  • New head should be found by January
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:25 PM   #339
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Finally saw Justice League on Friday night and it was...alright? Certainly better than BvS and better than what I expected given the reviews, but still just an average movie overall. Given how by the numbers it was though the sloppiness was very disappointing, perhaps even more so than BvS which was at least trying to do something different.

My girlfriend really liked it though so I guess we'll be picking up the extended edition whenever it hits bluray.
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Old 12-12-2017, 04:47 PM   #340
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Yo.

Q: in BvS we're lead to think that Supes could/would possibly resuscitate himself after being buried, but come JL we learned that he would *atleast* need a Mother Box and a "Flash zap" to bring him back.....so wat Id like to know is: was the scene that we got how Snyder intended to play that off, or was that 1 of the re-workings which came from Whedon being brought on-board??

if its Whedons work, then I suppose I can swallow it down better than if this was how Snyder intended to do Supes' rebirth all along......



Tazer
From the two articles I read, it was not how Snyder wanted the resurrection of Superman to play off.

In this first article, the cinematographer for Justice League, Fabian Wagner, how was part of the film crew and helped with bringing Zack Snyder’s vision for the DC superhero movie to life. In an email interview with Inverse, Wagner says scenes with Superman wearing his black suit were removed in the final cut:

“There were [scenes shot],” Wagner said. “It’s a cool looking costume. Sadly, we didn’t see that either in the final cut.” ...

In fact, Wagner says “quite a few scenes” didn’t make the theatrical release of Justice League, not just black and silver Superman. “Zack takes his time with telling the stories, and I’ve always liked that about his movies. There are a few scenes that I was very much looking forward to seeing which unfortunately got cut.”

One other scene Wagner refers to is a scene from the final trailer, in which Alfred (Jeremy Irons) talks to an off-screen figure while doing maintenance on the Batmobile. “They said you’d come,” he says, looking up at the mystery character. “Let’s hope you’re not too late.”

Wagner, who shot the scene, is keeping mum in regards to whom Alfred is speaking to. (Most fans think it was Superman.) But he promises that maybe one day fans will finally know for sure. “It was a great scene to shoot,” he says. “It was one of my favourites and also didn’t make it.”

And by this second article, it would appear that Zack wanted that "Knightmare/Parademon" scene in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice to pay off:
Batman's Nightmare In Dawn of Justice Was Going To Be Further Explained -

The nightmare Bruce Wayne had in the Batcave just before The Flash's arrival from the future was going to be explicitly referenced in Justice League. It seems the conclusion Batman reaches after learning about Steppenwolf's ability to convert the dead into Parademons was that Steppenwolf must have raised Superman from the dead in his apocalyptic glimpse of the future and that's why he fights for the side of Apokolips.

Batman's solution? He decides they need to raise Superman from the dead before Steppenwolf can, thus averting the nightmare future from ever coming to pass. That seems like severely-flawed logic but that was apparently Snyder's original idea for the team's motivation for resurrecting Supes.
This second article goes on to detail other changes from Zack's version, which are:

It seems uniting the Mother Boxes to create the Unity allows for Steppenwolf to communicate with his dead mother and unleash a power strong enough to allow Steppenwolf to overthrow his uncle as ruler of Apokolips. That's apparently why Steppenwolf refers to the Mother Box as just simply "mother" in a few scenes.

Apparently his original, full line in the TV spot that first revealed his voice is, "No protectors here. No Lanterns. This world will fall. You will be free, mother."

The scene featuring the Greek Pantheon, Amazons, Atlanteans, Man and even a Green Lantern (possibly 2) fighting against Steppenwolf and his Parademons was originally much longer and actually included dialogue. Robin Wright's Antiope was also set to be included in this extended scene. Wright's even credited as appearing in the film.
...
Cyborg's Accident Was Going To Be Shown -

The accident Ray Fisher's Cyborg mentions in Justice League that resulted in his father using the power of a Mother Box to save his life- it was originally going to be depicted on screen. That scene in the TV spot of Victor in human form was apparently him meeting up with his mother after a dominating performance on the field. Victor's angry becuase his father missed the game, which is apparently a regular occurance. On the ride home, while talking with his mom, Victor's anger gets the best of him and he loses control of the car, causing the fiery accident that claims his mother's life. Part of Victor's story in the film was going to be dealing with the fact that he survived the crash and his mother did not.
Karen Bryson was originally cast to play Cyborg's mother. Speaking to GameSpot, Fisher hinted at cut scenes featuring Cyborg's human days but never explicitly revealed specifics. "There were some things that you'll probably end up seeing later on, that didn't make it into this version of the film...There's a scene with Victor Stone, when he still was Victor Stone, and his mother, that was really special to shoot...You're shooting and testing, and when you're putting it together, you're seeing how cohesive you can make the story. Ultimately this is a team story, and, while there is some Cyborg material that we don't see here, I'm just happy that my teammates get to shine as well."

Aquaman's Time In Atlantis Was A Bit Longer -

It's previously been confirmed that Aquaman's meet-up with Mera in Justice League was a bit longer and also included an appearance by Willem Dafoe's Vulko. However, what those additional scenes contained was Mera urging Aquaman to stay as she didn't trust Orm (aka Ocean Master) while Vulko counsels Arthur to do what he feels is right in his heart.

Momoa previously spoke on these deleted scenes to GameSpot, stating, "There's a place where [Aquaman] goes down to, and it got cut out of the movie. He knows spots where he can go and he can see these statues, the remnants of [Atlantis]. There's Vulko--obviously we'll have way more scenes with Vulko, Willem Dafoe--in [the 2018 standalone] Aquaman. There just wasn't enough time in this movie."

Momoa goes on to reveal that Vulko is his connection to Atlantis and that he grew up hearing tales from Vulko that he would be welcomed in Atlantis as the rightful king. When he finally goes there and is shunned as a half-breed, Aquaman eventually returned to the surface as Momoa states, "He hates Atlanteans, he cannot stand being on land. He just--he's stuck in the tide. That's what Zack wanted."


Kevin Costner's Pa Kent Was Going To Be The Final Key To Returning Superman To Normal -


Part of Superman's return to the Kent farm after being resurrected would have included another vision of Pa Kent, similar to the one he had in Dawn of Justice. Like that hallucination, Costner's Jonathan Kent would have dispensed valuable advice to his son, serving as the final push he needed to regain his sense of self and suit back up as the Man of Steel.


Deathstroke Originally Shows Up In The Middle Of The Film And Breaks Lex Out Of Arkham


Lex Luthor's escape from Arkham was actually depicted in the middle of the film. Joe Manganello's Deathstroke busts him out and they split up and go there separate ways, with Slade drawing the GCPD away from Lex. They agree to meet-up at an undisclosed location once they're in the clear and it's this meeting that's used as the end credits stinger.


Cyborg Dies Attempting To Separate The Mother Boxes

According to the report, Cyborg's initial attempt to separate the Mother Boxes results in him hearing Heggra's voice and him seeing the same nightmarish vision that Bruce glimpsed in Batman v Superman. While distracted by this, Steppenwolf grabs him and rips Cyborg in half instead of just tearing a leg off as he does in the film. Essentially dead, Batman has Victor's remains taken to the Batcave as he believes there may be a way to restart Cyborg's robotic side. How that ending would've played into Cyborg's solo film is anyone's guess, although it's possible seeds were being sown for Grid's emergence.

Film Ends With Lois Revealing Clark Is Superman To Perry White

It seems the film's final Superman scene wasn't going to show Clark walking the streets of Metropolis, he was going to be standing in Perry White's office where Lois introduces him as Clark Kent a.k.a Superman. The scene was to imply that Perry was going to be brought in to help explain why Clark was declared dead and then returned exactly at the same time that Superman did the same.
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Old 12-13-2017, 02:25 PM   #341
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WB/DC needs to stop making such convoluted movies just to try and set up MORE convoluted movies. The Marvel films managed to hint at things more subtly, tell a story that even an eight year old can understand, as well as put out tons of product for their films like toys, bed sheets, clothing, etc. I hope WB can manage to pull this off sooner than later, I've waited twenty-five years for their characters (other than Batman) to get films and so far aside from WW its all been underwhelming.

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Old 12-13-2017, 05:07 PM   #342
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I'm glad to see people on this forum recognize that the DCEU flicks have problems because the first step to solving a problem is admitting there is one.

I mean, there are so many DC fans that have the mentality and attitude to like and defend any DC film due to the rivalry with Marvel. To say that DC films aren't good, it's a betrayal of loyalty; which is ridiculous. Fans of sport teams know what I'm talking about, as they recognize when their teams are bad but never waver in their loyalty to the team.
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Old 12-13-2017, 05:20 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Darth_Primus View Post
I'm glad to see people on this forum recognize that the DCEU flicks have problems because the first step to solving a problem is admitting there is one.

I mean, there are so many DC fans that have the mentality and attitude to like and defend any DC film due to the rivalry with Marvel. To say that DC films aren't good, it's a betrayal of loyalty; which is ridiculous. Fans of sport teams know what I'm talking about, as they recognize when their teams are bad but never waver in their loyalty to the team.
I feel sorry for anybody with THAT extreme of an attitude, as it probably means they aren't able to enjoy the Marvel films, which would be a shame.

Me, I'm a DC fanboy when it comes to comics, not to the extent that I don't recognize when DC does stuff I don't like, but to the extent that I'm pretty much unwilling to even try reading Marvel comics (though I suppose that could be as much due to being unwilling to risk liking them enough to buy them, when my comic budget is already stretched), but I enjoy the heck out of the movies.
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Old 12-13-2017, 05:27 PM   #344
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I still enjoyed Suicide Squad, B v S, and JL.... but the story and the flow of the storytelling in all three are all over the place.

I'm probably the only person who's THAT upset about it... but not having Jimmy Olsen in the films involving Metropolis and Superman just seems wrong. Man of Steel was probably the film I liked the least.

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