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Old 07-21-2008, 10:21 PM   #26
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Yo.

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Originally Posted by Lishego View Post
Nice, now if only they build on what was done before instead of just making new stuff up, and pretending the older issues just didn't happen.
/co-signed




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Old 07-21-2008, 10:31 PM   #27
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Yo.

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There were no Guardians present, they'd all left since "Millennium" to mate with the Zamarons. Hal charged into the core with no thought as to potential consequences.
the Old Timer (Appa Ali Apsa) was present when this was happening, remember?

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The Guardians did forbid any GL from entering the Central Power Battery.
of course, that rule doesnt hold much water when they took off to get some immortal nookie from the Zams........and wasnt it Appa's idea (or something to that effect) to go inside the CPB anyways?

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Hal is totally guilty. Look at him.



He's guilty. Maybe not of what this thread is saying he is........but still guilty of something!
sure hes guilty of something; he's either thinkin' of whether or make a move on Arisia again, or maybe to take Supergirl up on her offer (he can deal w/her cousin later....)






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Old 07-26-2008, 09:12 PM   #28
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Not officially. It has been contradicted on many points, but if that made things Elseworlds, Geoff would be retroactively making Elseworlds every month.
Interesting. I've never seen or read Willworld... will get now.
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Old 07-28-2008, 04:51 AM   #29
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I always figured the fault lay more with Sinestro than Hal. It was Sinestro who escaped death by seeking refuge in the CPB. And it was Sinestro who merged with the Yellow Impurity. I got the feeling it was Sinestro who pointed out Hal to Parralax from readin Rebirth. He was in that place for a long while, until John unconsiousiously freed him (briefly). At any rate, Parralax was still trapped in the CPB at the end of that story. But if someone awoke Parallax, I took it to be Sinestro.

Wasn't Hal's lilly-livered-ness said to have been caused by the Qwardians in Vol. 3? I'm certain it was. He travelled to Qward and they boasted that their I-can't-remember-the-name ray had made Hal into an indecicive tool.

Edit:
Okay, I quickly skimmed key parts of that issue. And the fault lies with the Gurdians 100% of the way.

First off, the Gurdians wouldn't allow a Krugurian to be killed. So Sinestro's mind was put in the CPB, allowing him access to Parallax (the Yellow Impurity of the time). Meanwhile, in the issue itself, it explains that the CPB would explode and create a black hole that would suck the entire universe into itself.

Old Timer wasn't immortal at the time and explained key parts of his memory were removed. So Hal visited the Gurdians on their retreat and they told him to go into the CPB and to stop it from exploding.

While I still maintin it was Sinestro who awoke Parallax, it was the Gurdians who put Sin into the CPB in the first place. Moreover, they told Hal to go in there and fix their mess. So, the Gurdians are the biggest idiots of all time.

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Old 07-28-2008, 05:17 AM   #30
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Interesting. I've never seen or read Willworld... will get now.
It was a 100% new content hard cover when they did those - the artist Seth Fisher has since killed himself - basically the entire thing takes place in the CPB as a test for new recruits think Fear Pods <spoilers

and no Elseworlds logo to be found
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:14 AM   #31
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omg i cant believe i missed this thread!! this is good stuff!! makes sense!!!
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:32 PM   #32
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The Guardians just need to stop placing very evil individuals into their very source of power over and over again. It seems a little strange to want to do that. You would think that with all their power and technology they could just construct a prison specially made to contain Parallax and Sinestro.
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:21 PM   #33
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Interesting. I've never seen or read Willworld... will get now.
It is by far the ODDEST GL comic I have ever read (possibly the oddest comic of any kind I've read, though my comic reading does tend to stay closer to the mainstream, so that could explain that). I liked the art, though, and in the end it made sense... sort of.
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:27 PM   #34
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While I still maintin it was Sinestro who awoke Parallax, it was the Gurdians who put Sin into the CPB in the first place. Moreover, they told Hal to go in there and fix their mess. So, the Gurdians are the biggest idiots of all time.
In Rebirth, though, the Guardians tell us they made themselves forget about Parallax as soon as they imprisoned him.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:02 PM   #35
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In Rebirth, though, the Guardians tell us they made themselves forget about Parallax as soon as they imprisoned him.

Uh, I don't remember that. I remember Ganthet asserting that PARALLAX made him forget, so that he couldn't warn Kyle, to which Parallax replied that Ganthet HADN'T forgotten anything. I always got the feeling that there was some kind of plot thread being set up by that exchange, where we learn that the fall of the GLC at the hands of Parallax WAS part of some esoteric Guardian plan, something like the Corps needing to be renewed from basically the ground up every few millenia to keep it from getting stagnant and falling apart slowly...
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:56 PM   #36
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In Rebirth, though, the Guardians tell us they made themselves forget about Parallax as soon as they imprisoned him.
They still both both of them in the CPB. Even if Parralax made them forget, it was Sinestro who did all the real damamge and he couldn't have done it if the Gurdians didn't mistake their power source as an inescapable prison.

Not only that, but they set it up so that the CPB would explode, taking the entire universe with it, should any of them or their agents kill a Krugerian. Which is even worse than just destroying the Corps over the issue.
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Old 07-31-2008, 03:37 AM   #37
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Uh, I don't remember that. I remember Ganthet asserting that PARALLAX made him forget,
Re-read, my friend. I'm pretty sure there's a passage where Ganthet mentions the Guardians all made themselves forget, so the knowledge of Parallax couldn't be used against them... or something. It's there.
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Old 07-31-2008, 03:30 PM   #38
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Re-read, my friend. I'm pretty sure there's a passage where Ganthet mentions the Guardians all made themselves forget, so the knowledge of Parallax couldn't be used against them... or something. It's there.

Well now I will HAVE to reread, as I am pretty sure you are wrong, and I have to know whether I should be smug or embarassed (though as a current Parallax host, I will, of course, never admit it if I find I am wrong. )
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:33 AM   #39
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Re-read, my friend. I'm pretty sure there's a passage where Ganthet mentions the Guardians all made themselves forget, so the knowledge of Parallax couldn't be used against them... or something. It's there.
Here's what you are thinking of:

When Kyle is recounting the whole Parallax story to Green Arrow, he says at one point, "Over the millennia Parallax became known simply as the Yellow Impurity. His legend was purposely forgotten so that no one would ever try to free it."

On the face of it this might seem like the Guardians themselves forgot, but I propose that it really means that they made sure the "legend was forgotten" without purposely forgetting themselves.

Why, you ask? Because six pages later, Green Arrow starts to ask why the Guardians didn't know what was going on if they put Parallax in the battery.

Either Ollie isn't paying attention, or that implies that he has no reason to believe that THEY forgot.

And Kyle's response backs this up. He doesn't say, "Duh, Ollie, they had made themselves forget, like I just told you." He says, "They were destroyed before they even knew what happened. And Ganthet... when I went to Oa to confront him about this, he thought Parallax purged him of his memories when he was freed."

In the next issue, Ganthet repeats this assertion, "The memories you stole from me are mine again."

So while I would agree that perhaps some lines weren't worded too well, it seems clear to me that the facts are supposed to be that the other Guardians were destroyed before they knew Parallax was involved, and Ganthet had his memories wiped by Parallax.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:15 PM   #40
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Yo.

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Originally Posted by Mister Ed View Post
So while I would agree that perhaps some lines weren't worded too well, it seems clear to me that the facts are supposed to be that the other Guardians were destroyed before they knew Parallax was involved, and Ganthet had his memories wiped by Parallax.
so, basically a further retcon is that the Oans DIDNT commit suicide, but were just killed in the middle of making that new Ring.....right??




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Old 08-01-2008, 06:20 PM   #41
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Yo.



so, basically a further retcon is that the Oans DIDNT commit suicide, but were just killed in the middle of making that new Ring.....right??




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Well, THAT was retconned LONG ago, maybe not explicitly but everybody and their brother has been saying that Hal/Parallax killed all the Guardians since shortly after ET, no matter how much I tried to correct them.
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:28 AM   #42
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Well it's hard to get that kinda stuff out of peoples heads once it's had time to fester in their memory like a sore. best way is to pull the old issue out and show them that way you shock them into reality


Post 700 BTW



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Old 08-03-2008, 02:28 PM   #43
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Yo.

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Originally Posted by Mister Ed View Post
Well, THAT was retconned LONG ago, maybe not explicitly but everybody and their brother has been saying that Hal/Parallax killed all the Guardians since shortly after ET, no matter how much I tried to correct them.
Im an obstinate person; Im not buying it until I see something/*anything* supporting it.

having 'llax kill them off as they were, and yet somehow Ganthet didnt pick up on it, just doesnt seem right.





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Old 08-07-2008, 07:31 PM   #44
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Wow, so all this Parallax entity stuff really works more than some of us would like it too. Good on Geoff for connecting all of this and slightly adding to certain elements without deviating to far from what was there to start with.
Sometime after Rebirth #3 came out, I brought up this story on Geoff's MB because I saw the connection then, and I've stressed its precedence ever since. At the time I asked if this was an inspiration for the new Parallax origin, but I don't think anyone confirmed yes or no. It's entirely possible Geoff came up with it on his own, and the similarity to GL 224 is just that.

Either way, in the old stories the yellow weakness never meant much, beyond making Sinestro Hal's "opposite number". But Geoff gave it resonance, and tied it (and Hal's downfall) to his most logical and popular GL villain. It's really a rather fitting development, like it was there all the time, waiting for someone to figure it out and connect the dots.

Much like Englehart's retcon of the Zamarons being the Guardians' female counterparts. Just brilliant, it fit, like it was intended all along.

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I really, really need to start reading the old stuff. Unfortunately in all my years of reading GL. I've yet to read anything before Vol 3.
I read GL as a kid (early 1980s), and there are a few good stories from the era. But a lot of mediocrity too, and some bad soap opera. But the Power War arc (Denny O'Neil's last arc) is what Sinestro Corps War reminds me of. And I imagine the Tales of the GLC /Krona War will somehow play into Blackest Night. They're coming out with that in trade, and it's just about the best GL story ever told:



The stuff that came after (late 1980s) is very hit and miss, especially once GL became a team book. Yuck.

When I got back into comics in the late 1990s, I finally caved picked up the first couple of GL Archives. Before I had always found Silver Age stories too...simple. But I was surprised by the first 15-20 issues of GL - they are actually pretty good. The characterization in those stories beats everything I grew up with from the 1980s, let me tell ya.

The tone is more innocent and kid-friendly, but the way the mythos (and Hal's world) evolves over the course of those first stories reads like a TV show with a season-long arc. It's still the best GL origin, and it provides all the evidence as to why GL became such a big deal, pretty much right away.

I'd get the Tales of the GLC book, and if you dig it go back to the beginning, with the Archives, Showcases, or the upcoming Green Lantern Chronicles:

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Old 08-08-2008, 08:37 AM   #45
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Andrew Don't look At the pic...WHITE BOOTS!!!!!



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Old 08-09-2008, 01:41 AM   #46
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Andrew Don't look At the pic...WHITE BOOTS!!!!!



Darth_Andrea
Yeah, you know the white boots is a new twist on an old song:

Back in the 1980s they would often color Hal's gloves green, or his green costume blue, or his ring constructs yellow. Even in the 1990s: There are whole pages in The Road Back trade where Guy and Hal's costumes are blue, not green.

Oh and I just saw in Final Crisis # 3 they drew Alan Scott's ring on his right hand. Whoops.
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Old 08-09-2008, 02:32 AM   #47
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I thought they were supposed to have white boots...


Yeah I noticed the Alan screw up as well. And did you see Firestorm? WTF?
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Old 09-06-2008, 04:10 PM   #48
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This *IS* a really interesting thread. I thinks its cool how things that may or may not have been connected... we actually connect them ourselves.
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Old 10-05-2008, 10:38 PM   #49
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The Guardians did forbid any GL from entering the Central Power Battery.
Except in that retcon Willworld story, where Hal is in the battery for a training exercise/mind trip!

And nice find Andrew. I don't get any "Hal hate" from him him presenting this, in fact, it is just the opposite and helps defend Hal further on his future actions and ties the Parallax entity in more. Now if Geoff would only tie Lord Malvolio in a little....
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:21 AM   #50
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Now if Geoff would only tie Lord Malvolio in a little....
That would be nice.
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