Do you feel that Geoff Johns is still pulling the strings on the GL books?

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

I wish they'd replace him with Mark Waid.

[Hypo Lil' Leaguer Find all posts View Profile Close Hypo]

Well at least my preference is actually in the realm of possibility.

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

Well at least my preference is actually in the realm of possibility.

[Andrew NDB Shot Caller Find all posts View Profile Close Andrew NDB]

I wish they'd replace him with Mark Waid.

That would be amazing.

[Rotten2thecorps Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Rotten2thecorps]

He could go dark (turn black). He could strain so hard that he broke the ring (which he claimed he did on several occasions and that no other GL had).




I disagree. Those were renegade guardians. Before Johns the GotU were still basically benevolent beings though stoic and detached. With Johns they became downright duplicitous and eventually outright evil---and not just one or two rogue elements, but all of them. And lately, it seems the new guardians are getting closer to Geoff's version than their previous good-with-rare-exception status.

With respect, I don't think that claim can be made due to thier actions during ET. No one is allwoed to play god and bring people back from the dead. Now here to stop you is Sinestro,mass murderer whic we just brought back from the dead.

It is not the only example of the Guardians being dicks. But that is hardly the main point,the main point is it is not Goeff's idea. If you wanna say he rehased a bad idea that would be fair.


That is my overall problem with people calling out Goeff People seem to be so angry at him they overlook the facts,wich is a shame because I myself have some gripes. I am waiting for other people to notice them,because I don't want to give the straight up hatters new ammo. However I would love to discuss some of the real flaws in his run. However the Anti-Goeff crowed has yet to notice them.

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

With respect, I don't think that claim can be made due to thier actions during ET. No one is allwoed to play god and bring people back from the dead. Now here to stop you is Sinestro,mass murderer whic we just brought back from the dead.

It is not the only example of the Guardians being dicks. But that is hardly the main point,the main point is it is not Goeff's idea. If you wanna say he rehased a bad idea that would be fair.


That is my overall problem with people calling out Goeff People seem to be so angry at him they overlook the facts,wich is a shame because I myself have some gripes. I am waiting for other people to notice them,because I don't want to give the straight up hatters new ammo. However I would love to discuss some of the real flaws in his run. However the Anti-Goeff crowed has yet to notice them.

With respect, if you really think what Geoff did with the Gaurdians is at all comparable to previous writers' depictions of them as "dicks", I think you are the one overlooking facts. Even during ET, the Guardians were depicted as insensitive, not evil. (Though I certainly concede that the Guardians depicted in ET were pretty dumb.) Geoff not only stripped them of any semblance of wisdom, he made them responsible for acts that seemed pretty unambiguously evil, and we're not talking individual renegades, but as an organization. And, even worse, he retconned it so that they were ALWAYS this way, back to their early history. Had he simply had them go wrong in the present, in response to some extraordinary circumstance, their fall, while regrettable, would not have cancelled out their history of generally benevolent guidance. But no, he took pains to "reveal" that the Guardians have been responsible for really questionable stuff back to their earliest days.

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

With respect, I don't think that claim can be made due to thier actions during ET. No one is allwoed to play god and bring people back from the dead. Now here to stop you is Sinestro,mass murderer whic we just brought back from the dead.

On this point specifically, I don't think it is at all clear that Sinestro was truly "dead" at that point at all. He had already returned TWICE by then, once in Mosaic, and once in Guy Gardner Reborn. Sure, he was a disembodied "spirit" that only was able to act through control of others' bodies, but he was still around. The Guardians decision to tap Sinestro as their final line of defense, while deeply stupid for multiple reasons (and this is one of my MAJOR beefs with ET, the stupidity of the Guardians in making this choice), was not really a true "resurrection", since he was never really "gone".

[Trey Strain Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Trey Strain]

Something similar that Geoff did was that when he killed Jack T. Chance, he let him know beforehand what a shitty Lantern he was. It's clear he takes the trouble to set it up so that the changes he makes are "necessary" and should never be undone.

[Rotten2thecorps Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Rotten2thecorps]

Well my friend I will agree to disagree. Bringing a mass murderer back from the dead. Giving him the most powerful weapon in the universe,and trying to get him to kill a guy who has saved the universe on countless occasion,seems pretty evil to me.

It is a tired old song and dance to me.The Guardians being no verry Guardian like. They were pretty bad under Denny's run,and would do some pretty bad thing during the 80's. ET is just the Crowning achievement.

I miss the Guardians being the oldest wisest most powerful beings in the universe. it gave Green Lanterns some validation. However. Saddly it was rare to see them be that way. Wich often caused Hal to butt heads with them.

But enough of the history lesson. In my opinion it is a far worse crime as a writter to rehash a bad idea. The character should be moving forward.

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

I miss the Guardians being the oldest wisest most powerful beings in the universe. it gave Green Lanterns some validation.

On this we can heartily agree. I would even go so far that such Guardians are actually NEEDED for something like the Corps to be even practical.

Saddly it was rare to see them be that way. Wich often caused Hal to butt heads with them.

Here, I have to disagree. For the vast majority of the Guardian's comics career, I think they were depicted as wise and powerful. Even when Hal butted heads with them, it wasn't because they were WRONG, per se, but because they were somewhat callous, or insensitive to the day to day concerns of mere mortals. Take the Third Law storyline. Hal certainly butted heads with the Guardians there, yet it was still shown that, in terms of the big picture, they were acting in the best interests of the universe as a whole. They just didn't feel the need to justify or explain themselves. That's arrogant, sure, but not necessarily wrong.

I don't need the Guardians to be infallible, really, but they are supposed to be wiser, more knowledgeable, and more competent than those they are commanding (and the reader, too) IMHO. When the Guardians make a mistake, I shouldn't feel like only an idiot would make it, and I would do better. I guess that began with ET, for me, but at that point it was part of a rushed mandate to get rid of them, so I guess it didn't surprise me, even as I was disappointed.

And the Guardians should ALWAYS, even when they are making a mistake, seem like they are benevolent in their intent, IMHO. I want Guardians like that back again. I thought we might be getting that in New Guardians, but now, even though it doesn't seem to me like the Templar Guardians have really done anything truly wrong, the way it is being written, I feel like I am SUPPOSED to be disgusted and disappointed in them, and that doesn't bode well, IMHO.

[Rotten2thecorps Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Rotten2thecorps]

I don't think me and you are going to see eye to eye on this. I get that you fell that there is a line between Evil and just plain poor desicion making. I have to say it goes deeper then that. Sure you can justfy it by saying the Guardians never appeared to act malicious,and thus they get a pass of being stupid but not evil. I say that they can not act with malous because they are the Gurdians and they are supposed to be without emotions,pre Goeff days.

In this frame of thinking you give Johns and unintentnal pass for what he does. His Gurdians are the first to act with Malice,but it is only because his Guardians supress emotions instead of not having them like in the past.

Agreed yes sometimes when Hal butted heads with the Guardians it was because they were insenstive,but somet imes it was also the Guardians being Evil/Stupid.

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

Agreed yes sometimes when Hal butted heads with the Guardians it was because they were insenstive,but somet imes it was also the Guardians being Evil/Stupid.

I'm going to need an example of this, pre-Geoff. I'm honestly not recalling Hal butting heads with the Guardians because they were evil any time before Geoff decided to do his hatchet job on them.

(And it occurs to me that we may not even disagree on him doing that hatchet job. Looking back over some of your statements, it seems like while you don't think what he did was beyond the pale of what HAD been done with the Guardians, you definitely aren't a fan of the way he portrayed them.)

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

The most interesting thing I'm getting out of this discussion is that, whatever differences we may have on how various people HAVE portrayed the Guardians, we BOTH seem to be on the same page as far as how we WISH they were being portrayed.

So I'll be happy to go into my Christmas break (where I'll likely be on here far less) focused mainly on that common ground.

[Trey Strain Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Trey Strain]

If you're going to write Green Lantern, you ought to keep the Guardians but get them off the stage. They should be ascended masters who have retained some semblance of biological life in order to help less evolved but sentient life forms through law enforcement, and the Central Power Battery should serve as their interface with the material universe. The Lanterns should occasionally get alerts and advice about emergencies from the CPB, but usually they should be on their own.

[Space Cop The Dandy Find all posts View Profile Close Space Cop]

It's hard to believe there was a actually a time when Hal used to say "by the Guardians" as a positive expletive.