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Old 12-12-2018, 03:48 AM   #1
Andrew NDB
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Default Grant Morrison talks feuding with Alan Moore & why he still doesn't like Watchmen

https://io9.gizmodo.com/exclusive-gr...HwMLkpRlLNhzbQ
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:33 PM   #2
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I didn't know this was a thing! LOL

I love how Morrison doesn't give a damn about having a different opinion about Moore's work. And then saying stuff JUST to piss off Moore later on... it should be made into a movie.

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Old 08-14-2019, 02:52 PM   #3
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He makes a good point about some of the stuff in Watchmen being too convenient for the story (the psychiatrist's reaction to Rorschach, and Ozy's plan being undone by happenstance of Rorschach's journal amongst them), but I think its core concepts are what always made it memorable, not the details the author used to make them seen. Watchmen is a story you enter because it's dark superheroes being gritty, but walk away from with a conversation to be had about politics, the ethics of war, and what it actually means to do the right thing. The dressing merely facilitates the lettuce. And sure, that may be sloppy writing from a certain point of view, but 34 years on people are still talking about it, so you can't say it wasn't an effective approach.
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Old 08-14-2019, 03:59 PM   #4
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I still find Watchmen about 50 times more readable than Final Crisis.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:11 PM   #5
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I still find Watchmen about 50 times more readable than Final Crisis.
Morrison wasn't "left alone" on Final Crisis, though. Lots of sticky notes and complete forced reversals from Didio and company, all the way through.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:16 AM   #6
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I'm probably the only person on this board who likes the Watchmensch parody comic more than I like Alan Moore as a person (spoiler alert: I don't like him as a person, he is a massive dickhead).
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:27 AM   #7
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I wouldn't even want to meet Mr Moore as he seems very unlikable as a person. But for me Watchmen is the all time high water mark for the comics medium. It's the greatest comic ever made IMO, and I still put it on the highest of high pedestals. I might agree with some.of the things Morrison has to say, but I don't think he has ever written anything that comes close to Watchmen, V For Vendetta, Swamp thing or even Gaiman's Sandman.

Sadly, nobody in comics does, and they've had 30 years to try to raise the bar. As the medium whimpers and crawls to its inevitable end, I find it sad that the very best the medium ever had to offer was all so long ago.
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:18 AM   #8
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I wouldn't even want to meet Mr Moore as he seems very unlikable as a person. But for me Watchmen is the all time high water mark for the comics medium. It's the greatest comic ever made IMO, and I still put it on the highest of high pedestals. I might agree with some.of the things Morrison has to say, but I don't think he has ever written anything that comes close to Watchmen, V For Vendetta, Swamp thing or even Gaiman's Sandman...
This. I also can't imagine being chummy with Moore, but I still think he set the gold standard in comics. From what I've heard, William Faulkner and John Lennon could both be serious jerks, but I still think they were artistic geniuses. And, really, ditto Morrison. I like most of his work I've read, but in interviews he comes off as arrogant and pedantic--he's like a professor writing very good comics who wants to remind you he's a professor writing very good comics. He might not be as bats**t crazy as Moore, but I doubt I'd get along with him much better unless I kept the conversation very narrow.

The main point doesn't work for me anyway. There have been many movements in art and literature that call attention to their artifice. It doesn't make them any less legit or creative. Mind you, Morrison acknowledges in this that he spoke a little too soon, so I give him that.
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:11 PM   #9
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This. I also can't imagine being chummy with Moore, but I still think he set the gold standard in comics. From what I've heard, William Faulkner and John Lennon could both be serious jerks, but I still think they were artistic geniuses. And, really, ditto Morrison. I like most of his work I've read, but in interviews he comes off as arrogant and pedantic--he's like a professor writing very good comics who wants to remind you he's a professor writing very good comics. He might not be as bats**t crazy as Moore, but I doubt I'd get along with him much better unless I kept the conversation very narrow.
Morrison is certainly no Geoff Johns, I know that much. He knows it, too, deep down. Geoff has created so many more quality characters and storylines than Grant could dream of. Grant is content just regurgitating obscure shite from the 60s while giving himself pats on the back for how clever he is at doing so.
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:19 PM   #10
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Thanks. I haven't laughed this hard all week.
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:32 PM   #11
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Morrison is certainly no Geoff Johns, I know that much. He knows it, too, deep down. Geoff has created so many more quality characters and storylines than Grant could dream of. Grant is content just regurgitating obscure shite from the 60s while giving himself pats on the back for how clever he is at doing so.
What has Johns even created? There's Baz and Jessica, who most everyone loathe. Stargirl, I guess, who he has to make sure and remind everyone in every interview ever that was named after his dead sister? What/who else? All he's ever done is appropriate characters he likes then go down a bullet point list of things he doesn't like and begins the Geoffconning.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:16 PM   #12
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He also created the whole Spectrum of Corps, with their associated members. Whether that's a good thing is a matter of taste. (I found it interesting initially, but it wore out its welcome through overuse.)
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:28 PM   #13
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He also created the whole Spectrum of Corps, with their associated members. Whether that's a good thing is a matter of taste. (I found it interesting initially, but it wore out its welcome through overuse.)
Conceptually it was a great idea. I was excited as hell for a minute. It was like, "Oooh, a big War of Light is coming, plus Alan Moore's old 'Tygers' story is coming true! I wonder what will happen when Ranx shows up (the answer: nothing)!" etc.. Abysmal execution, sadly.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:07 PM   #14
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Conceptually it was a great idea. I was excited as hell for a minute. It was like, "Oooh, a big War of Light is coming, plus Alan Moore's old 'Tygers' story is coming true! I wonder what will happen when Ranx shows up (the answer: nothing)!" etc.. Abysmal execution, sadly.
I was pumped as hell. I liked the idea of the Five Conversions being a serious threat.

Then what we GOT was, 7 or so groups that ALL had their own power rings that looked like the GLC's. They all had lanterns, most were pretty much like the GLCs. They all had some form of central power battery on some kind of homeworld. They mostly all had uniforms very similar to the GLCs.

Hell, all of them even had an oath just like the GLC! Where was the creativity? It was the laziest thing I have seen phoned in and presented as a creative idea in GL history.

Lazy, trite and embarrassing. It got old before it really got underway. I have been trimming down my collections and the first thing to go was any non green Lantern merch. I am at the point where I don't want to see any of that stuff in my comic room. Hell I have given some of that merch away to my son and his friends so it doesn't sully my collection anymore.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:09 PM   #15
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Also, how do you keep Atrocitus around as an anti hero with his own title when in Johns' remake of the GL origin has HIM being the guy who murdered Abin Sur? That's like giving Joe Chill his own spin off Bat title. Or the guy who killed uncle Ben a spin off Spidey title.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:13 PM   #16
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Hell, all of them even had an oath just like the GLC! Where was the creativity? It was the laziest thing I have seen phoned in and presented as a creative idea in GL history.
And with the same syllables per line as the GLC oath. And this is like almost two decades after the GLC was allowed to make up their own oaths. Insufferably dumb.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:06 AM   #17
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Also, how do you keep Atrocitus around as an anti hero with his own title when in Johns' remake of the GL origin has HIM being the guy who murdered Abin Sur?
It's the rockin' perm. Chicks dig the rockin' perm.

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That's like giving Joe Chill his own spin off Bat title. Or the guy who killed uncle Ben a spin off Spidey title.
I legit would read a spinoff mini about Joe Chill and Uncle Ben's Shooter on a misadventure, '70s-style.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:34 AM   #18
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Like a Bonnie and Clyde road trip type of story?
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:55 AM   #19
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...I have been trimming down my collections and the first thing to go was any non green Lantern merch. I am at the point where I don't want to see any of that stuff in my comic room. Hell I have given some of that merch away to my son and his friends so it doesn't sully my collection anymore.
Yeah, I bagged up all my Blackest Night figs except the ones that are actually Green Lanterns.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:34 AM   #20
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Well, they gave Sinestro his own book... and in addition to wiping out a whole space sector and trillions of lives, he had Kyke's mom murdered.
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Old 08-17-2019, 03:07 AM   #21
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Like a Bonnie and Clyde road trip type of story?
Doesn't even have to be a road trip, they could try robbing families in alleyways or breaking into houses in retirement communities. The characters have such monumental backgrounds that they are literal gold mines of creativity.

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Well, they gave Sinestro his own book... and in addition to wiping out a whole space sector and trillions of lives, he had Kyke's mom murdered.
Oh come on, it's not like he put any of them in refrigerators! You are being way too negative.
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Old 08-24-2019, 02:46 AM   #22
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I might agree with some of the things Morrison has to say, but I don't think he has ever written anything that comes close to Watchmen, V For Vendetta, Swamp thing or even Gaiman's Sandman.
Um... what?!? Morrison did to Animal Man what Moore did for Swamp Thing in the 80's and early 90's. Then there's his stint on JLA that is arguably one of the best runs in the team's history where... get this... he ACTUALLY made people fans of Plastic Man. He also carried the Vertigo line for years with the Invisibles. I know you likely aren't a fan of his Doom Patrol, but his X-Men turned heads years later and definitely had its fans. Oh yeah... he also managed to make Grayson as Batman work for an extended period.

Final Crisis was a convoluted mess, but his Batman run both before and after Grayson-Bats was introduced was the best the title had been in years.

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Morrison is certainly no Geoff Johns, I know that much. He knows it, too, deep down. Geoff has created so many more quality characters and storylines than Grant could dream of. Grant is content just regurgitating obscure shite from the 60s while giving himself pats on the back for how clever he is at doing so.
Johns is guilty of a lot of the same shit Morrison is though. You saying Geoff hasn't used obscure shit from decades' past while patting himself on the back on how clever he is at connecting things together?! Seriously? The biggest difference between Morrison's best and Geoff's? Morrison's best was during a time when the internet either wasn't around or it was still new to everyone, whereas Geoff and his works had the luxury of being promoted across multi-media after the internet started blowing up. Geoff also had help relaunching the JSA from none other than Robinson, a fact most people forget when thinking about Johns' various JSA runs.

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What has Johns even created?
Somebody mentioned the skittles brigade already, but he also created the Others in Aquaman, a handful of decent Rogues in the Flash like Murmur and Cicada... aaaand... I actually don't remember Geoff EVER creating something not already attached to another property. Morrison's Invisibles was brilliant and not even attached to tights and spandex, or a mainstream superhero universe.


Last edited by Ωmega Man; 08-24-2019 at 08:10 AM. Reason: Heide reminded me Morrison and Ellis are in fact 2 people...
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:39 AM   #23
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Warren Ellis wrote Transmetropolitan.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:04 AM   #24
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Warren Ellis wrote Transmetropolitan.
Why did I think that was Morrison? Must be cause I thought he and Spider sorta favored each other... IDK?! I feel like a dumbass though. Heads been all over the place today, didn't bother fact checking. I could've swore the last Wizard Magazine I had bought back in the day was one talking about Transmetropolitan by Morrison... and it's weird because I like a lot of Warren Ellis' work and SHOULD have known that he was the creator.
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Old 08-24-2019, 11:01 AM   #25
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I think it's because King Mob and Spider Jerusalem look alike.
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