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Old 05-18-2017, 05:12 PM   #951
Big Daddy Dave Targaryen I
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Wait, was he the one who turned Sinestro into a huge Mary Sue, who was the bestest at everything, or was that after Johns left the title? I hated that. A lot.
Johns definitely made Sinestro the bestest GL ever, but I really liked his characterization and motives (most of the time) in a general sense, if not issue to issue. I think Sinestro was one of the better improvements to the series. He stopped being a bumbling idiot with Hall always kicking his ass. He became the major threat that Hal and the GLC desperately needed.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:14 PM   #952
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I don't think Hal's title will drop much more, if at all. But the other one will.
Really? I think they will both drop a bit more. The formula for HJ&TGLC is all wrong. The title needs to be cancelled and relaunched as GL volume 6 proper before it gets too embarrassing for DC.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:18 PM   #953
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Now I wish I had done this for GL volume 4!
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:24 AM   #954
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Oh, the data.

The CGI budget for GL was $54 million:

**The Ryan Reynolds-starring superhero film, which already boasts a huge $150- 200m budget (depending on which reports you read), is to receive a 20% boost to its $45 visual effects budget.**

Meanwhile, The Flash's whole budget per episode is $3M:

**At 23 episodes a season, the total budget is about $69 million.**

(This doesn't mean that every episode has to come in in under $3M. But that has to be the average cost.)

You can't make a one-hour version of the GL movie for television every week. Even if you're paying the actors and the director a lot less.

And even if the ring constructs were feasible for television -- which they're not -- they'd still suck.

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Old 05-19-2017, 01:58 AM   #955
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^I agree. And since GL is about the constructs, to me, that just means it's not an appropriate property for live-action TV. That suits me fine since I don't like to watch TV. I'd feel obliged to watch it and since I don't have (or want) cable personally it would be an inconvenience.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:36 AM   #956
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Green Lantern had more than 2,000 special effects. Imposing blurs over images and making prosthetic masks in The Flash is not comparable.

You can argue with me, but you can't argue with the numbers. You should explain to DC how they can make a GL television series on the cheap with kewl ring constructs and hordes of aliens that nobody wants to see anyway. They'd love to have their eyes opened about it.
That's exactly my point. The GL film went the expensive route when that wasn't necessary. They could have gotten similar visuals for much less, and each week, Flash/Supergirl/Legends (and occasionally even Arrow) hammer home that point. Those shows routinely equal the CGI shots in Green Lantern, but they do so in a frugal manner. Each week, we see proof positive that GL could indeed work on TV, but the stuffed suits at WB are still skittish after their own financial blunder.

And Guardians of the Galaxy's success has also taken the argument that Green Lantern is too weird for the general public and put it to rest once and for all. The difference between the two is that Marvel Studios has a clear understanding of their properties, whereas WB has a mixed track record of understanding their DC properties.

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He's just pushing his 'no constructs' argument, nothing more. You can give him episode by episode special effects budgets and he wouldn't bother reading any of it.

I'd say the whole 4 part crossover used less $$$ for special effects than just the first hour of the GL film. Trey insists he knows everything about comics, tv, movies, and marketing though so... LOL

~//V\\~
We've seen intricate backdrops (Mars, Gorilla City, Krypton) and a plethora of various aliens and alien tech. It seems that Berlanti learned his lesson about the most pricey effects not necessarily being the best route.

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I thought Johns' Sinestro was one of his better contributions to the GL mythos. I really liked what he did with the character, I just don't think a title for him was the best idea in hindsight.
Johns did wonders for Sinestro, but ongoing villain titles, even when they're temporarily going the anti-hero route, seem finite in nature.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:36 AM   #957
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The Flash does a very good job with low-budget special effects, absolutely. But there's another story posted online about how the Gorilla City two-parter was by far the most expensive undertaking of that season. The series still had to average a budget of $3M, so that story made necessary a lot of "bottle episodes."

You can't make a GL series like the one you're talking about for cheap. If you could, then DC's movie budgets would be a fraction of what they are now.

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Old Yesterday, 03:25 AM   #958
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The Flash does a very good job with low-budget special effects, absolutely. But there's another story posted online about how the Gorilla City two-parter was by far the most expensive undertaking of that season. The series still had to average a budget of $3M, so that story made necessary a lot of "bottle episodes."

You can't make a GL series like the one you're talking about for cheap. If you could, then DC's movie budgets would be a fraction of what they are now.
I've seen far too much evidence to the contrary from the Berlanti shows. If I might be crude, a flying hero with a flash ring that makes things from his or her mind would be easy in comparison to some of the characters who are used on a weekly basis.
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Old Yesterday, 07:39 AM   #959
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I've seen far too much evidence to the contrary from the Berlanti shows. If I might be crude, a flying hero with a flash ring that makes things from his or her mind would be easy in comparison to some of the characters who are used on a weekly basis.
Maybe they should hire you to produce a GL television show. But if I write a few episodes for you, I ain't gonna use any ring constructs.

Meanwhile, the evidence is right there in my signature that Green Lantern not only doesn't need the constructs but is better without them, regardless of who writes it. Fighting for them is like fighting to preserve landlines in houses because you like them.

If the constructs sold comics, then Green Lantern would be selling. So very obviously they don't sell it. Of course there are a few posters on the message boards who will go to the mat for them, but it's that way with every aspect of every old comic. A few people will struggle to keep Aquaman wearing his orange shirt and holding a trident too. Or to keep the LoS idling in the future and the JSA idling n the past, where they won't sell a comic. You see a definite pattern in those objections, right?

I've even seen a couple of people claim here that if DC dropped the constructs, they'd stop buying the comic. Well, I call bullshit on that. But even if they did drop it, is that a tragedy? Nobody is telling them to go away, but if that's what they need to do, then Merry Christmas and all the best to them. They won't inflict a mortal wound on the comic, or even a mosquito bite. Someone will step up and replace their $3 a month.

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Old Yesterday, 02:23 PM   #960
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^So you actually think there are massive amounts of comic fans out there who are thinking "I'd really like to give that Green Lantern a try, but only if he gives up the ability to do make whatever he wants"?

You are literally the only person I've ever read/heard who thinks Green Lantern can be separated from construct making. The next closest I can think of is a friend of mine who said (probably in the 90s) that he didn't think they could make a GL movie because of the constructs, but even he couldn't conceive of the property without them. And I think that's how most outsiders think of him--he's that guy who can do whatever he wants with his ring. For myself, when I explain what he is to non-comic-readers, I say "he can make whatever he wants with his ring and . . . "

The constructs are not the equivalent of Aquaman's scale shirt. They're the equivalent of his aquatelepathy and ability to breathe under water. They're not the equivalent of Wonder Woman's jet. They're the equivalent of her strength and lasso of truth. And we saw what happened when they tried to remove those from her. It would be more truthful to the stories to upgrade the Darkstars slightly to what you want than to degrade the GLC that much.

When Nodell and Finger created GL they wanted to name him Alan Ladd because the concept was based on Aladdin. Even when Schwartz recreated the concept with a sci-fi twist and a large nod to the Lensman books, he knew he had to keep that element. Super heroes are modern myths (especially in DC) and the mythological core of GL is a wish-granting ring. If constructs are outdated and unmarketable than GL itself is outdated and unmarketable.
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Old Yesterday, 02:25 PM   #961
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^So you actually think there are massive amounts of comic fans out there who are thinking "I'd really like to give that Green Lantern a try, but only if he gives up the ability to do make whatever he wants"?

You are literally the only person I've ever read/heard who thinks Green Lantern can be separated from construct making. The next closest I can think of is a friend of mine who said (probably in the 90s) that he didn't think they could make a GL movie because of the constructs, but even he couldn't conceive of the property without them. And I think that's how most outsiders think of him--he's that guy who can do whatever he wants with his ring. For myself, when I explain what he is to non-comic-readers, I say "he can make whatever he wants with his ring and . . . "

The constructs are not the equivalent of Aquaman's scale shirt. They're the equivalent of his aquatelepathy and ability to breathe under water. They're not the equivalent of Wonder Woman's jet. They're the equivalent of her strength and lasso of truth. And we saw what happened when they tried to remove those from her. It would be more truthful to the stories to upgrade the Darkstars slightly to what you want than to degrade the GLC that much.

When Nodell and Finger created GL they wanted to name him Alan Ladd because the concept was based on Aladdin. Even when Schwartz recreated the concept with a sci-fi twist and a large nod to the Lensman books, he knew he had to keep that element. Super heroes are modern myths (especially in DC) and the mythological core of GL is a wish-granting ring. If constructs are outdated and unmarketable than GL itself is outdated and unmarketable.
And Alan can keep the constructs. They won't hurt the JSA.
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Old Yesterday, 04:56 PM   #962
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They will ALL keep their constructs. It's only in your fanfiction that they don't have them.
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Old Yesterday, 10:19 PM   #963
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I think you have to actually be a fan for it to be FANfiction. I'm not sure I've ever seen him praise anything other than Beau Smith's Warrior.

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Old Yesterday, 10:35 PM   #964
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Fuck Warrior. That whole thing was garbage. Thank God Johns jettisoned that two seconds in.
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Old Today, 02:55 AM   #965
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DC immediately did what I said, and it went from running a distant second in comics sales for 50 straight years into a dead heat with Marvel. Marvel then blundered by refusing to do the same thing, and instead launched new titles that starred its top characters.

So a couple of you guys respond to that by saying that that wasn't my idea. No, it was Marvel's idea because they published five titles 18 times a year.

When a little kid says something that goofy, you smile, tousle his hair and tell him to go outside and play.
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Old Today, 08:58 AM   #966
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Since you like to post the same rhetoric in EVERY single thread, they should just be merged. You're still on that "publishing 18 issues a year" kick and I already linked how Marvel did more than that and your facts are wrong like always.

-------------------

Marvel published Amazing Spiderman twice a month, then three times a month, and for specific storylines up to five times a month. I don't need to read an entire thread from years ago to know you're already looking at the facts wrong... just like always. 18 issues a year, PLEASE. You know Marvel milks the cow more than that.

And cancelling low sellers to make way for new/more popular product is a NEW thing now? That's how the business has been run for decades. Half the time publishers will give a 3rd string book to new talent just to see how that talent handles itself. First chance they get they're put on another Batman title or Superman book. Francis Manapul was on Legion of Superheroes first... now look at everything he's done since. Tom King was on Omega Men, then Grayson [which we all knew was gonna be cancelled to bring back Nightwing], and then... Batman.

A multi-million dollar company doesn't have people trolling the internet looking for ideas. Sometimes great minds think alike, other times people use something called common sense in situations, and other times you get a cocky executive or editor who likes to take risks. None of those situations involve multiple people looking to you for professional advise through various message boards. As if stalking you on one forum isn't ludicrous enough, you claim they're watching you on MULTIPLE forums now?



Somebody quote me so the dipstick might learn something. Publishing up to 3-5 times a month after the success of twice a month publishing for Amazing Spiderman had the title moving forward exponentially fast. You WISH you came up with the idea of twice a month publishing.

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Old Today, 02:28 PM   #967
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I can picture the office meeting at DC between the editors and publishers, about 30 of them, all ready to hang themselves or jump out the window because they can't think of any possible way to turn sales around. One guy is just about to drink a glass of water with cyanide in it when BAM! One guy is standing on a ledge outside. The doors fly open and a pimply faced young intern bursts in and said, "Guy's! I've got it! That guy on CBR and the GLC forum who's posts it's my job to read? He says we should make our titles bi-weekly!"

The room errupts into cheers. Paper is flying everywhere. Men are hugging. Champagne bottles are popping. It's like mission control for astronauts after they save the ship. It's euphoric. Paul Levitz slumps back in his seat looking at a picture in a frame of Julius Schwartz in his hands and he has tears rolling down his cheeks. "We did it Julie. We DID it."

They actually have a 14 foot tall mural right now of Foghorn Leghorn dressed as a Green Lantern in the DC offices in tribute. His ring does NOT make constructs.
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Old Today, 02:40 PM   #968
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Tell you what. If DC brings the LoS permanently to the present, I'll say that was not my idea. Because, of course, in the 1960s Saturn Girl went back in time to the present on a few occasions. I'll say it was the idea of Otto Binder or whoever write those old stories.
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Old Today, 03:12 PM   #969
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Tell you what. If DC brings the LoS permanently to the present, I'll say that was not my idea. Because, of course, in the 1960s Saturn Girl went back in time to the present on a few occasions. I'll say it was the idea of Otto Binder or whoever write those old stories.
You would be willing to DO that? You know you really don't HAVE to. That's very big of you.
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Old Today, 03:16 PM   #970
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Legion LOST.

LEGION LOST.

Damn does this guy have some weird comprehension disability?

Legion Lost was set in the present. And it failed. Nobody's talking about shit from the 60's but you. This happened in the last 5-6 years at the birth of the New52. It's not the concept that needs altered, it's the execution in characterization.

And again... how many ***damn threads is THIS argument gonna get thrown into? This topic is supposed to focus on GL Sales Numbers.

EDIT: He'll admit it wasn't his idea LMFAO.

~//V\\~

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