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Old 07-20-2017, 01:29 AM   #1051
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Old 07-20-2017, 06:07 AM   #1052
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Are the numbers for the POTA/GL crossover fairly normal for a crossover like this? Seems comparable to the second Star Trek crossover but the first one I thought sold much better.

I don't know what the expectations are for something like this. Did they expect more or is this in the ballpark of acceptable?
Boom had to expect more than that, even if they publically say otherwise. Those numbers are paltry. There must be a warehouse where thousands of copies are boxed up with no particular destination.

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Just curious... have you two bothered to read the series or have you completely written it off because it features characters you don't want? Personally, I enjoy it more than I do Hal and the GLs.
Comic book fandom in general seems to be splintered these days. I've seen Marvel garner equal parts vitriol and praise from some fans who think the company is putting out politically correct filler, while other segments of fans think that the company is taking a fresh approach that will keep their universe vital in the coming decades. Likewise, I saw long-time DC fans applaud the Rebirth concept, but I'm seeing an increasing number of fans who feel like the stories have run out of steam quickly.

As for GL, I really like both titles, especially the current story arc with Kyle and Soranik. However, I'm prepared for yet another GL reboot if each of the titles keep diminishing in readership.
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:21 PM   #1053
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I agree that Venditti has been better on this volume, but both books do leave something to be desired.

For me, at least Green Lanterns is trying to expand the lore and history, even if it isn't the greatest read. I'm not the biggest fan of Simon and I kind of like Jessica but I don't despise them.

The pacing is too quick for Hal/GLC, I feel like the only way Venditti can have enough happen is with panels, panels everywhere, which would be jarring. He is good at squeaking an issue out with little impact or weight to it. This last issue was different with Soranik and Kyle, but even that won't last or will end in a predictable fashion.

That said, I get both titles and go to my store regularly. I can see why these books are falling in the charts but I think they could be much worse.
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Old 07-20-2017, 04:09 PM   #1054
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I was buying both of the current volumes up through November, which was what, #15 or so? Even after that I often flip through them on the racks to see what's going on.

I can't stand either of them for multiple reasons. Most importantly, neither of them were needed and there isn't enough room for more human GLs. They hog up an entire GL title, and are taking up the JLA spot. Hal now has to share a title with John, Guy and Kyle. AND all the other alien GLs. All four human GLs have their own fans who are getting shortchanged right now.

Second, I feel like they were both created as part of comics current diversity campaign. Johns wanted to get a muslim GL over with readers, and we got the story about how he was innocent of the terrorist crimes he was suspected of. Just ham fisted and eye rolling sh*t there. I never bought into his character after that. To me he will always be the character from an after school special where the audience is talked down to in order to educate them. Everyone knows all muslims aren't terrorists, but this one isn't an appealing character to me. Can't stand his costume either. Too busy. Too cluttered. The gun is stupid.

Jessica bothers me completely based on her character. The whole anxiety gimmick is eye rolling to me. I don't root for her to overcome her mental illness. In fact, I think its stupid to put the most powerful weapon in the universe on someone who is mentally ill.

In fact, both characters are kind of based on sterotypes. Muslim? Everyone thought was a terrorist. Women are crazy! And Jessica is very crazy. Hell, with her they didn't even say she was misjudged. That's not the readers playing with stereotype, but the publishers. same publishers who made Blue Beetle a mexican bug and the Atom a tiny asian.

I just want her to give her ring back and go hide in a closet for her final appearance. And Baz to lose his ring right before a black bag goes over his head and he is smuggled away to Guantanamo Bay where he is forgotten about. Cancel that title and make room for the four real Green Lanterns.
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Old 07-20-2017, 04:45 PM   #1055
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...The gun is stupid...
He did get rid of that recently. Personally, I get the gun. Rings fail so often that it makes sense to be prepared, but practically speaking, a blade would be more utilitarian and heck, oxygen tanks are probably what you're most going to need.

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Old 07-20-2017, 04:57 PM   #1056
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Yeah, most of the baddies GLs face aren't going to be phased by a handgun, anyway. A spacesuit of some kind would be a much more practical life-saving backup.
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:08 PM   #1057
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Yeah, most of the baddies GLs face aren't going to be phased by a handgun, anyway. A spacesuit of some kind would be a much more practical life-saving backup.
What's easier to carry? A hand gun or a space suit? With him being a new guy I don't have an issue with him being ignorant to the fact that a gun wouldn't work, however I do remember an issue where the ring failed and the gun got him out of a jam. The recent development of him getting rid of the gun was nicely done in my eyes though.
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:18 PM   #1058
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They're never watched the sales of Green Lantern drop below 30K without doing something drastic.

It's time for them to admit defeat, tap out and reboot it. And without Geoff's oversight on the project, since it's entirely his concept of the property that's crashed and burned. There are many other things he can do besides that.
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:39 PM   #1059
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What's easier to carry? A hand gun or a space suit? With him being a new guy I don't have an issue with him being ignorant to the fact that a gun wouldn't work, however I do remember an issue where the ring failed and the gun got him out of a jam. The recent development of him getting rid of the gun was nicely done in my eyes though.
If it were me, and I didn't have trust in my ring, I'd WEAR a spacesuit, every time I left Earth. Carrying it probably wouldn't do much good if your ring failed suddenly.

I'm glad he got rid of the gun, but I'm not sure I think it was that well done (I don't remember thinking that when I read it, anyway. I recall thinking it was missing the point of why the gun wasn't necessary). I'd probably have to reread it to comment intelligently, though.
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:46 PM   #1060
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They're never watched the sales of Green Lantern drop below 30K without doing something drastic.

It's time for them to admit defeat, tap out..........
YES it's time they Make Kyle Great Again
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Old 07-20-2017, 06:41 PM   #1061
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Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
They're never watched the sales of Green Lantern drop below 30K without doing something drastic.

It's time for them to admit defeat, tap out and reboot it. And without Geoff's oversight on the project, since it's entirely his concept of the property that's crashed and burned. There are many other things he can do besides that.
They are not going to reboot anything. What will happen is a crossover will be announced to get a boost in sales, if that doesn't work a creative team shake up with an A-List writer will be brought on.
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Old 07-20-2017, 07:12 PM   #1062
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I'm surprised DC hasn't turned GL into a Bat title.
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Old 07-20-2017, 07:28 PM   #1063
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They've completely botched using bigger threats in GLC currently, so TPTB are gonna think through either a reboot or adjusting the titles to what people would actually show up for month in and month out and not lose half it's readership in ten issues.

Hal and Kyle in the monthly on Earth and in JL / adult Titans books is a no-brainer. The two best selling GL's are suddenly in twice as many books? That's money in the bank.

John and Guy can be the Lethal Weapon team in space, Guy is more like Riggs anyway. TPTB need more structure in the GLC rather than trying to branch out and do a ton of shit we've already seen with the other Corps'. I'd make like a six page back-up tale in every issue of GLC showcasing a new alien Green Lantern.

Kill Baz.

Send Cruz to a team like Batman's Outsiders or let her be a background player in GLC.

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Old 07-20-2017, 08:27 PM   #1064
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Within three months, sales of HJ&GLC will drop below 30K. They WILL do something then. So what are they going to do?

First, they need to admit that even though Geoff sold a lot of comics for a while, his direction has failed decisively and that he needs to stay away from it.

Second, just do the obvious thing by putting Hal on Earth, Guy in space, John in JLA and Kyle in Titans or Teen Titans. Give non-Lantern roles to Baz and Cruz, maybe in the Bat books, which are big and popular enough to accommodate them. Flush the emotional spectrum, which petered out long ago. Bring back the Guardians but keep them off-camera most of the time. And don't make the property Hal-centric by connecting all the stories so that they revolve around whatever he does.

Third, reboot it when you do that, because of course the sales would explode as people would give it another chance. The property should never have been spared from a reboot in the New 52 anyway. If any fanboys throw a fit and threaten to leave because you reboot it, then good riddance to them. But they won't go anywhere.

There's nothing controversial about any of that. Not even remotely.
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Old 07-20-2017, 09:38 PM   #1065
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Both titles in the 31 and 32k range IS a sad sight. You would think DC would have gotten the hint long again and at least utilize to the go-to first step of creative team change. They haven't even done THAT yet, much less the next step of drastic change in the story itself. Lots of options still on the table to fix this mess.
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Old 07-21-2017, 05:15 AM   #1066
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What's easier to carry? A hand gun or a space suit? With him being a new guy I don't have an issue with him being ignorant to the fact that a gun wouldn't work, however I do remember an issue where the ring failed and the gun got him out of a jam. The recent development of him getting rid of the gun was nicely done in my eyes though.
I've always felt that the rings failing is a poor plot device when it's overused. After millions of years, it stands to reason that either the GotU or the GLC themselves would have developed a contingency plan for that. If Sinestro can reach into a pocket dimension and pull out a battery, why don't they all have something like that for the worst case scenario? Why don't they have something like a code to a wormhole that brings them to a place where they're instantly outfitted for space and armed in some manner until their rings are back online?

I agree that Baz giving up his gun was a pleasant development. While it does stand to reason that a GL would want a back-up weapon, that story showed that his reliance on his gun was residue from the feral outlook of a criminal. He still has trust issues with other heroes and he's questioned himself in the past, so it was fitting that he'd had a cathartic moment where he'd have to reaffirm his new life as a hero.

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They are not going to reboot anything. What will happen is a crossover will be announced to get a boost in sales, if that doesn't work a creative team shake up with an A-List writer will be brought on.
I expect some kind of major shake-up in the next six months. I certainly hope GL isn't reduced to a single title since the mythos is so big that it needs more than one book.
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:00 PM   #1067
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...I agree that Baz giving up his gun was a pleasant development. While it does stand to reason that a GL would want a back-up weapon, that story showed that his reliance on his gun was residue from the feral outlook of a criminal. He still has trust issues with other heroes and he's questioned himself in the past, so it was fitting that he'd had a cathartic moment where he'd have to reaffirm his new life as a hero. . .
Good analysis. So, it wasn't the gun itself that was the problem so much as the motivations that led him to always carry it.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:16 PM   #1068
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If DC does do a creative team change, I wonder if they are going to keep Van Sciver around working on Green Lantern. While he may be popular with some, his name didn't do anything for the sales of Edge of Oblivion and it isn't doing anything for Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps right now. What's more is that he's likely not a very cheap artist to have drawing and inking pages. So, if he's not doing anything for sales, and assuming he's costing perhaps considerably more than the average artist, it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep him around from my view. Especially if they want a really fresh take on things next time around. That is, of course, an "if".

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Old 07-21-2017, 05:26 PM   #1069
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I don't think Van Sciver is a great fit for monthly work. I love his art and he puts the time to make it look good but drawing a couple issues out of every arc is not going to increase sales.

I feel he is best suited for mini series and special events. I could see if he did variant covers for more than just GL that could help as well.

Regarding Edge of Oblivion, the writing and plot in that story was weak, and I think some were pissed at the cancellation of Lost Army. I don't the line has recovered from that and it wasn't in a very good place when it started, compounding the problem. Hell it probably would have fared even worse without his art, but I think the point is moot., since it was bound to fail anyway on the story's own merits.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:25 PM   #1070
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I despise those characters that much. They are pretty much to GL what Poochie was to Itchy & Scratchy. The sooner they go away the better.
Dave. I thinks its safe to say that I have a better chance of seeing Guy getting his Warrior powers back then you have of being rid of Baz and Cruz. As long as Johns is one of the top dogs at DC those two are practically untouchable. We got them for the forseeable. The only thing that we can ask for is that they are well written and not just Mary Sues to pander to Johns.
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Old 07-22-2017, 01:13 AM   #1071
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Just what DC needs. Six active human Green Lanterns. Soon to be 7 when Alan comes back.
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Old 07-22-2017, 01:22 AM   #1072
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If Sinestro can reach into a pocket dimension and pull out a battery, why don't they all have something like that for the worst case scenario? Why don't they have something like a code to a wormhole that brings them to a place where they're instantly outfitted for space and armed in some manner until their rings are back online?.
You bring up a concept I've wrestled with as a Green Lantern fan for years. Past writers have used a feature of the ring that allows the GL to stash their lantern in a pocket dimension, that they can quickly retrieve when needed. I always assumed the writer's purpose of this was to have a way for a GL to get to their lantern to recharge it when needed, without having to depict them carrying it everywhere they go. Easy for Earth based stories, but when Hal was going through space I can see the editor not wanting to have the artist draw Hal holding it as he flies or sitting in a bubble all the time.

Either way, the idea didn't get used regularly and disappeared eventually. I like the idea in concept, but I would hate to be the writer who had to write around that all the time. Still, it shows there is room for some creativity concerning the ring and lantern's capabilities that might be left to explore.
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:23 AM   #1073
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There are ups and downs to having so many people writing the story for a series. Some ups are that the story can continually indefinitely and you get so many different ideas and views from the different perspectives of the various writers. However, many different interpretations often yield contradictions, and sometimes the core ideas that make the story work can be lost in favor of some other vision (like the Emotional Spectrum, for example).

For Green Lantern, whether you keep a power battery stashed away in a conveniently accessed pocket dimension or in a locker you can't always reach right away is one of the contradictions. The pocket dimension, while interesting, nearly eliminates the threat of running out of power, which, at this point, is Green Lantern's only real weakness. But that opens up some other questions, like why not just carry the battery around with you, unless you fear it getting damaged or stolen, or something. But I think those fears should be offset by the threat of running out of power.

By this point, I think someone should have figured all of this out. Actually, they should have done it right at the outset as they were developing the concept. But, I mean, because of the nature of how DC comics operate, some other writer or editor would likely just come along and overturn it when it doesn't suit what they want to do with their story.

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Old 07-22-2017, 02:40 AM   #1074
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...The pocket dimension, while interesting, nearly eliminates the threat of running out of power, which, at this point, is Green Lantern's only real weakness...
Really? I think it's the opposite. The rings are weaker than they've been (aside from losing the yellow weakness). GLs get knocked out and/or killed all the time now. It seems like a stiff breeze will blow them over. Plus they can no longer time travel, heal, walk through walls, change their appearance, etc.

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...But that opens up some other questions, like why not just carry the battery around with you, unless you fear it getting damaged or stolen, or something. But I think those fears should be offset by the threat of running out of power...
Yeah, I'd think you'd try to make it part of your costume somehow, even attach it to armor or something.

But, yeah, the pocket dimension wasn't consistent. Sometimes it just meant that it was hidden say in Hal's apartment but out of sync with time and space, meaning he had to go there and sync it. Other times (I think more often) it was accessible anywhere and anywhen, which of course is what you would want if you were a GL. The latter actually seems a more likely description for a "pocket dimension." Otherwise, it would just be an alternate dimension.
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Old 07-22-2017, 03:54 AM   #1075
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Really? I think it's the opposite. The rings are weaker than they've been (aside from losing the yellow weakness). GLs get knocked out and/or killed all the time now. It seems like a stiff breeze will blow them over. Plus they can no longer time travel, heal, walk through walls, change their appearance, etc.
Yeah, the rings have been de-powered, but now that the yellow weakness is gone, there is no actual real handicap they have other than running out of energy. It's kinda' semantics, but there is nothing an enemy can exploit like they could with Superman and Kryptonite.
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