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Kyle Rayner
View Poll Results: Should Kyle have his own book again?
Yes 9 60.00%
No 4 26.67%
Not sure 2 13.33%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-03-2015, 01:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Big Daddy Dave Skywalker View Post
Ion's rationale about Kyle being wicked kewl powerful above being in a good comic reminds me of Star Trek VI, and the bit with George Takei wanting to be the Captain of his own starship in the film. Shatner's point was all of the story was taking place on the bridge of the Enterprise, so why would he want to cut down on his screen time simply so he could say he was the captain of his own ship. Granted, it leaves out that Takei hated Shatner and didn't want to be in the same room with him let alone film scenes with him, but the excuse they gave itself always made me chuckle.
I know it's OT, but I always thought that happy accident worked out well. Sure, it may have been nice to have Sulu interacting with his old crew mates, but it's frankly ridiculous how many commanders were onboard the Enterprise A. I mean Checkhov was a commander in a station (tactical) that seems to normally be manned by a Lt. Jr. Grade or Lt. It's like having a first mate clean the head. It's a bit of a stretch. So, to me, the bonus was twofold: we got to see Sulu in a command he frankly should have and we get to see more of the Excelsior (probably my second favorite Starfleet vessel).

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Old 08-03-2015, 01:28 AM   #27
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Worked so well he's been stuck in terrible stories!

A real Kyle fan should want Kyle to be in the best book possible, whether he is uber powerful, or a barely functioning power ring. He could be in a series where he's trapped on Earth, living in NYC and his ring is of limited power. He decides to use his ring to help people even though it goes out on him at the worst times.

It could be the best written thing ever and you wouldn't like it because Kyle wasn't more powerful than the other human lanterns? What kind of fan does that make you?!?
oh that's easy the kind that knows what he likes and to h@ll with what others think
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:44 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Star-Lantern View Post
I think the GLC should save itself.



What likely causes it is that the title of "Green Lantern" gets overcrowded, and some of the writers and editors look for things for some of the other characters to do so they can still use them without them being Green Lanterns.

I also don't think space sectors should be done away with. If anything, there aren't enough space sectors and the universe seems too small. If I were to reboot Green Lantern, I'd way up the number of sectors and Lanterns. As powerful as Lanterns are, there really aren't enough of them to effectively protect something as vast as the universe.

As for Kyle Rayner getting his own title... uhm. Well, I'm not terribly invested, so I would like to preface my opinion with that. I do know that it probably isn't wise for there to be a whole lot of Green Lantern titles. Some of them would likely wind up as low sellers because interest in the property only goes so far right now. I wouldn't expect a Kyle Rayner book now to wind up selling more than what New Guardians was about four months ago, which was pretty darn low. That could change depending on certain factors, like creative team, and maybe even quality of the book, but I think it's safest to bet that a new title with Rayner would end up where New Guardians was.

As for what I'd do with him, I'm not sure. The character is in a weird place right now. A lot of the characters he was most associated with in his heyday either don't exist in current continuity or are way different, so I think it would be hard to hit the nostalgia buttons with his fans. Someone has already done the space adventures with him and Carol Ferris, and I'm not sure if regressing him back to what he was in the '90s would be for the best, either. I'd really have to brainstorm with him.
Some thoughtful points there.

Re the sectors: Just don't put a limit or a number on how many GLs there are, and don't specify how the universe is divided up, if in fact it is.

Re the Lanterns: I say give them all a title. If one or two or three don't stick, then so what? The world won't end. Titles get canceled all the time. But put some real thought into it beforehand this time instead of flying by the seat of your pants. And make them all GREEN LANTERNS!

Re what to do with Kyle: He needs to be placed on Earth as a GL, without the baggage of the Nineties.

This stuff is REALLY not complicated...
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Old 08-03-2015, 04:59 AM   #29
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I think if ANY Lantern could pull away from the Corps proper and work it'd be Kyle. And if you really get back to his roots he's always had something different about him that set him apart from the others. The problem with rebooting any single GL is you have to keep all of the others in mind as well so that nobody's stories are too similar. Hal and Kyle should be the Lanterns of 2814, let Guy and John be the Lethal Weapon of the GLC.

However, you have to do something with the GLC in any case. Gotta make the old seem new again and put a fresh spin on that whole thing. Reestablish the Guardians' role, a proper Honor Guard, a real chain of command and not just Salaak over every damn thing, etc... as far as a mission it'd be to go beyond sector 3600 and mapping more of the universe...

~KL~
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:31 AM   #30
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I think if ANY Lantern could pull away from the Corps proper and work it'd be Kyle. And if you really get back to his roots he's always had something different about him that set him apart from the others. The problem with rebooting any single GL is you have to keep all of the others in mind as well so that nobody's stories are too similar. Hal and Kyle should be the Lanterns of 2814, let Guy and John be the Lethal Weapon of the GLC.

However, you have to do something with the GLC in any case. Gotta make the old seem new again and put a fresh spin on that whole thing. Reestablish the Guardians' role, a proper Honor Guard, a real chain of command and not just Salaak over every damn thing, etc... as far as a mission it'd be to go beyond sector 3600 and mapping more of the universe...

~KL~
I pretty much agree with that except that you don't need an Honor Guard or a command structure, and the Guardians should be kept off camera except for very rare occasions. The AI of the CPB should be set up to manage things.

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Old 08-03-2015, 07:59 AM   #31
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Re the sectors: Just don't put a limit or a number on how many GLs there are, and don't specify how the universe is divided up, if in fact it is.
That could work. But since the sectors and Green Lanterns have a numbered system, I think fans would be itching to know how many there are. And I wouldn't get rid of the numbered system since the title "Sector 2814" has become a hallmark of the franchise. Still, the fans wouldn't need to be told, and it may be better to leave that vague, so things don't appear too rigid and boxed in, especially since the universe is supposed to be expanding.

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Re what to do with Kyle: He needs to be placed on Earth as a GL, without the baggage of the Nineties.
Being placed on Earth as a Green Lantern is definitely a thought. It would be a lot better to have Kyle there than Simon Baz, who is more or less useless. What do you mean by "the baggage of the Nineties," though?

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Re the Lanterns: I say give them all a title. If one or two or three don't stick, then so what? The world won't end. Titles get canceled all the time. But put some real thought into it beforehand this time instead of flying by the seat of your pants. And make them all GREEN LANTERNS!
Yeah, but DC just got done trying that, and there were some rather low selling books there, including one with Kyle Rayner. Now, I wouldn't pin the blame on Kyle Rayner, necessarily, but rather the Green Lantern franchise being spread more thin than it could comfortably bear. I don't think the cause of the low sales was due to the fact that Kyle wasn't a Green Lantern, but, again, the franchise being spread too thin, and people willing to buy only so much Green Lantern.

DC could try it again, but like I said, I think the same thing would happen, and you have to consider that DC could have given that potential shot to another book that may sell better, diversify their line more (since there are already GL titles going), or both.
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:54 PM   #32
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1) Still, the fans wouldn't need to be told, and it may be better to leave that vague, so things don't appear too rigid and boxed in, especially since the universe is supposed to be expanding.


2) Being placed on Earth as a Green Lantern is definitely a thought. It would be a lot better to have Kyle there than Simon Baz, who is more or less useless. What do you mean by "the baggage of the Nineties," though?



3) Yeah, but DC just got done trying that, and there were some rather low selling books there, including one with Kyle Rayner. Now, I wouldn't pin the blame on Kyle Rayner, necessarily, but rather the Green Lantern franchise being spread more thin than it could comfortably bear. I don't think the cause of the low sales was due to the fact that Kyle wasn't a Green Lantern, but, again, the franchise being spread too thin, and people willing to buy only so much Green Lantern.
1. Exactly. I did sales for a while, and I was taught as a fundamental that you stay away from numbers as much as possible. They box you in.

2. Kyle was specifically created as "a Green Lantern for the Nineties." Backward baseball caps, Nine Inch Nails, loft apartment in NYC. He was supposed to be "younger and hipper" than grey-templed Hal. Lose that stuff.

3. They tried to expand the franchise in the Nineties too. But both times, it was not with all four guys as GLs. They keep trying to turn some of the Lanterns into something else, and it never works. A few fans used to complain that all the Lanterns have the same powers, but as Steve Englehart said, "It ain't about the powers." It's about the CHARACTERS!
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Old 08-03-2015, 03:25 PM   #33
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I think Kyle needs his own book again. I don't know what the premise would be but I think he deserves it.
He did and it was called Green Lantern: New Guardians.

It hasn't been that long for a Kyle solo series.
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:51 PM   #34
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so long as he's still the most powerful _____ Lantern of them all then i'm down for yet another go, otherwise don't even bother
I agree.

Kyle is and always will be the GREATEST Lantern in existence. I wish that he would get his own book or even team up with Guy. I like the interaction that the two of them have. During Blackest Night was pretty cool. Very well written dialogue between the two of them.
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:32 PM   #35
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2. Kyle was specifically created as "a Green Lantern for the Nineties." Backward baseball caps, Nine Inch Nails, loft apartment in NYC. He was supposed to be "younger and hipper" than grey-templed Hal. Lose that stuff.
IMHO, Kyle works best as the younger of the Lanterns. IDK what you expect here though... lose all the stuff you mention and replace it with what? An MP3 player, an iPhone, and a Beiber haircut? The only thing that really ever bugged me on that list is how in the hell did he live on Bleecker Street as a starving artist and pay what they pay for rent in that particular area. And as far as him keeping with the times, I don't need to see a Kyle complaining about the president or the economy every other few issues like everybody else in this country seems to be doing. 'Bout the only thing that'd tie him to today's times, for me anyway [since I see a lot of me in Kyle], is to give him something mundane like a crush on Taylor Swift. Marvel uses celebrities and popular stuff in their comics all the time while DC tries and fails with stuff like FedLex, Facepage, and teen sensation Whitney Sears. Time to [i[really[/i] get with the times...

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3. They tried to expand the franchise in the Nineties too. But both times, it was not with all four guys as GLs. They keep trying to turn some of the Lanterns into something else, and it never works. A few fans used to complain that all the Lanterns have the same powers, but as Steve Englehart said, "It ain't about the powers." It's about the CHARACTERS!
GLCQ was a poor attempt at keeping a GLC title on the shelves despite a few good stories. Guy Gardner/Warrior and Darkstars, while they did have former GL's in them, weren't an expansion of the franchise. Hell John wasn't even a Darkstar until after Zero Hour. And Guy between the yellow ring and the Warrior powers was a mess too. Closest thing we got to an expansion after they intro'ed Kyle was the New Corps 2 parter and the GL/Sentinel Heart of Darkness a year earlier.

TPTB only thought to expand when Geoff [and by extension EVS] created multiple colored Corps'. And that's mostly what we got. Red Lanterns. New Guardians. Larfleeze. Sinestro...

~KL~
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Old 08-03-2015, 09:45 PM   #36
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IMHO, Kyle works best as the younger of the Lanterns. IDK what you expect here though... lose all the stuff you mention and replace it with what? An MP3 player, an iPhone, and a Beiber haircut? The only thing that really ever bugged me on that list is how in the hell did he live on Bleecker Street as a starving artist and pay what they pay for rent in that particular area. And as far as him keeping with the times, I don't need to see a Kyle complaining about the president or the economy every other few issues like everybody else in this country seems to be doing. 'Bout the only thing that'd tie him to today's times, for me anyway [since I see a lot of me in Kyle], is to give him something mundane like a crush on Taylor Swift. Marvel uses celebrities and popular stuff in their comics all the time while DC tries and fails with stuff like FedLex, Facepage, and teen sensation Whitney Sears. Time to [i[really[/i] get with the times...



GLCQ was a poor attempt at keeping a GLC title on the shelves despite a few good stories. Guy Gardner/Warrior and Darkstars, while they did have former GL's in them, weren't an expansion of the franchise. Hell John wasn't even a Darkstar until after Zero Hour. And Guy between the yellow ring and the Warrior powers was a mess too. Closest thing we got to an expansion after they intro'ed Kyle was the New Corps 2 parter and the GL/Sentinel Heart of Darkness a year earlier.

TPTB only thought to expand when Geoff [and by extension EVS] created multiple colored Corps'. And that's mostly what we got. Red Lanterns. New Guardians. Larfleeze. Sinestro...

~KL~
Kyle just doesn't need to be a kid, nor even the youngest. Been there and done that. It makes him second rate, the junior partner in the firm. He doesn't need to be au courant or trendy either. Yes, I have some ideas about what to do with him.

Some people get stuck on the past, no matter how bad an idea that is. There was a very hardcore group who adamantly opposed Guy becoming a GL again and demanded that Warrior come back. It took them a long time to simmer down. Others thought the idea of a GLC comic that wasn't a quarterly and filled with short stories was crazy. Now, I'm sure, some will want Kyle put back the way he was when Ron Marz was writing him. That's human nature.

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Old 08-04-2015, 02:22 AM   #37
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Just make him a Green Lantern on Earth...
This made me laugh after you said this...

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Been there and done that.

Some people get stuck on the past....
We've been there and done that if it's just putting him back on Earth. Take away all the 90's trappings and replace them with more modern themes and situations and how is it really that different? Because it's the New52 or DCYou or whatever? Oh, but he hasn't been a member of the League yet... but you don't want him being the younger GL or the rookie on the League. I don't see how being the youngest makes him sub par, just gives him a different set of qualities and views than the more militaristic Hal and John, and the loose cannon Guy. Nightwing was never a sub-par character to Batman because he was younger. Making them all the same age, getting the rings at the same time, etc... makes me wonder how Batman would've been if he had three or four partners right out of the gate closer to his age. That idea sounds just as horrible as making all the Lantern's in their twenties.

Kyle is the only GL that I can see surviving without the Corps proper, I mean hell he did it for years. I mentioned using Starheart energy earlier because it's green and similar enough and makes him closer to a Green Lantern than the other colored rings. However, it's also a whole new ballgame with more potential than you can shake a stick at. There's no Alan around, no Jade, and in the New52 it could literally be connected to tons of stuff.

Separating Kyle could've worked the first time as Ion if DC would've stuck with it. Go hard or go home. You can't decide halfway through a story that everything needs to change again. The two times I've written Kyle out of the Corps proper were a blast, making him the Torchbearer won me the writing contest on this site that year after going into OT with Heide and writing second acts, and Heide's story was incredible. Writing Kyle as the Dark Lantern for seven or eight chapters was also fun, as the stuff with the then current JLoA in the pre-New52 setting all but wrote itself. I'm completely sold on the idea of Kyle w/o the Corps or being a little different.

I honestly feel like at this point I haven't read about Kyle in the New52. He's just a cardboard cutout rehashing Hal stories with the New Guardians and White Lantern status, and the wearing every ring leading up to being the WL. Hell even hooking up with Carol/Star Sapphire. Now he's hanging with the Omega Men. The cardboard cutout just happens to be named Kyle Rayner.

~KL~
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Old 08-04-2015, 03:43 AM   #38
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Just make him a Green Lantern on Earth, which is where he works best. But none of that Nineties "Friends," New York and Gen X shit.

You're going to have to reboot the whole thing to get rid of Emerald Twilight. All four Lanterns should get their rings at the same time. No crashed spaceship for Abin Sur though because that made no sense anyway. He's just mortally wounded. Hal and Kyle get Earth duty, and Guy and John get space duty. The Central Power Battery decides that stuff. No set number of Lanterns or space sectors. Then do what Emerald Dawn 2 did and have Sinestro weasel his way in as their alleged benefactor and trainer, but with bad intentions.

All problems solved. PM me and I'll do it for you, DC.
Reading the rest of this topic more clearly now, and because I can go on for hours...

You want to do WHAT with Hal's origin? Butcher it to add three other Lanterns at the same time? While it would speak volumes to Abin Sur's character that it'd take four Lanterns to replace him, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Let's go ahead and let Joe Chill be 'the guy' who killed every superhero's parents in the DCU while we're at it LOL

The 90's NY 'Friends' stuff is what sold the better part of Kyle's original run. It isn't the character's fault that the whole scene was the victim of gentrification and everybody wanted to be moody artists and what the kids got to calling emo. It's hilarious how gentrified female leads are in superhero related media with every other one pulling a Lois Lane and wanting to be a reporter. A character is only as good as his supporting cast. Batman has Gordon, Alfred, Grayson, Catwoman, Lucius Fox, and the whole Wayne Enterprises thing. Superman's got Perry White, Lois, Jimmy, Lana Lang, and the rest of the Daily Planet crowd. NYC wasn't the home of every other hero in DC like it is in Marvel. Kyle had Radu, Allison, the blind musician, Donna Troy, Arsenal, and the rest of the young heroes from that generation of Team Titans or New Titans I think it was called.

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I think what causes it is that people love to "get creative" instead of looking at what a long track record shows very clearly to work and not work.
^^^ And this just goes along with what I was getting at. The everyman's hero vibe, Kyle's laid back slacker artist lifestyle, being the younger generation of hero... that's what sold the series. It wasn't until after Winick's run started winding down and Kyle started becoming more Hal lite that it went to shit. And to dedicate so much to the Earth life Kyle didn't have anymore and for what... letting Jade sleep around and seeing John get his dancing legs back?

I also disagree with...

Quote:
Kyle doesn't need to be a White Lantern, a Starheart Lantern, a weak-assed Lantern or anything of the sort. EVERY TIME someone has tried to make a Green Lantern into something else, the idea had flopped. It's been tried MANY, MANY TIMES, and it's flopped EVERY DAMNED TIME.
Guy was a yellow Lantern before such a thing existed. You can blame that failure on the stupid G belt buckle and the bowlcut. Guy here had the advantage of being the only star of his book. And it still sucked. I'm not even gonna bother listing Warrior because it wasn't anything remotely like a GL comic.

John Stewart's time as a Darkstar wasn't very long. Same could be said for Donna Troy. Neither was really the star of the Darkstars title before it was cancelled. I don't see how John's time as something other than a Lantern was a failure, it was more of a background gig.

Alan Scott becoming young again at first made me excited. The suit looked incredible, the universe was just rocked by Zero Hour, and all of his adventures that lead to him becoming Sentinel, then growing old again, happened in the background of other comics. I always think back to the rumor that if Kyle didn't work as a concept DC was gonna fall back on the younger Alan Scott. So many ideas are running through my head for all of these concepts now...

Hal's time as Parallax, pre giant yellow grasshopper, is still seen as something that had so much potential that was wasted the second he was killed and became the Spectre. To this day there are still people who would love to see Hal go grey again and become Parallax like he was before Geoff Johns. Of course Hal as the Spectre was doomed to fail, but again, that ridiculous idea at least had him being developed in a solo series.

Kyle's time as Ion the first time was during another of his high points, ending with issue #150. It wasn't a solo series without GL in the title, but I think the resonance left from Hal's coolness as Parallax was part of the reason Ion was even attempted. The first half of his 12 issue maxi set up what would've been a great new setting for the character and by his creator no less. Character driven GL comics were becoming a thing of the past though with the oncoming Sinestro Corps War. Kyle's time as a White Lantern was during the New Guardians, while his story wasn't in the background, he still had to share panel time with his team and connecting the GL books with event tie ins.

Guy Gardner as a solo yellow Lantern: Failed but had potential.
Guy Gardner as Warrior: Failed.
John as a Darkstar: Had potential and was all in the background, hardly a failure.
Hal as Parallax: Had potential and was all in the background, hardly a failure.
Hal as the Spectre: Failed.
Alan as Sentinel: Worked and had potential, but was in the background.
Kyle as Ion 1.0: Worked and was a high point in his run, however his title was still 'Green Lantern'.
Kyle as Ion 2.0: Worked up until Geoff Johns got event crazy and came up with entities and multiple Lantern Corps'.

Now with the more recent stuff...

Hal as every colored Lantern: Worked, it's what sold his series for the better run of volume 4.

Guy as a Red Lantern: Worked up until Red Lanterns ended well enough to keep the series going. Guy still has a red ring even in GLC: Lost Army. Guy as a RL has potential, they're just trying to hard at the moment.

Kyle as a Blue Lantern: Worked, however it was in the background. A lot of us Kyle fans wanted to see this and we got to see it twice. Had potential.

Kyle as every colored Lantern: Worked up until New Guardians ended well enough to keep the series going. Like his time as a Blue Lantern, Kyle's time as a White Lantern had potential but he had to share his monthly title.

Saying the GL's can't make it as anything other than a standard GL is ludicrous. There's a lot of potential in some of these ideas, it's just never explored.

Rant over. I think I made any points I was getting at.

~KL~
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Old 08-04-2015, 04:02 AM   #39
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The people who said twenty years ago that they liked Kyle because he was young like them aren't so young any more. Maybe some of them haven't noticed that though.

Yes, maybe you could make a Lantern into something else and it would work. But it's not worked enough times that the stubbornest person in the world ought to start considering by now that maybe it's just a bad idea.

The only way you need to separate Kyle from the other Earth Lantern is PHYSICALLY. That is, just put him in another city and give him his own stuff to deal with.

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Old 08-04-2015, 04:47 AM   #40
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I liked Kyle twenty years ago. I'm almost 31. Doesn't change the fact there needs to be a younger Lantern. The moment Baz was created I called bullshit because he was the third Lantern from Detroit, it's just too much. Saying one dying Lantern chose four twenty somethings is on the same level as Power Rangers cheesy and that's without even going into multiple colored Corps'.

It hasn't worked well enough for anyone... but Kyle.

Putting him in a different city on Earth but still leaving him rooted to the GLC proper and getting pulled away for events and crossovers will still leave us with a Kyle in name only and he'll be given stories meant for Hal. Especially if he continues any relationship with Carol, has problems finding a job, has to make new friends [pun intended] in the New52, etc and so forth.

We need character driven stories first and foremost. A supporting cast for more than four or five issues before they're never seen again. And with Kyle, that little something to set him apart. He'll forever be a GL book no matter how far removed from the GLC proper he becomes, just like Grayson will forever be tied to the Bat-Family. But like Grayson, an effort has to be made to let the character truly shine.

~KL~
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Old 08-04-2015, 06:12 AM   #41
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Whatever is done with Kyle, I'm of the opinion that he should not be in the Green Lantern Corps, even if he will forever be tied to the Green Lantern mythology. I think the Green Lantern mythos offers enough alternatives to where he could still have powers similar to a Green Lantern's, but not be in the Corps.

His whole deal was that he was a different sort of Lantern and he didn't have the Corps with him. That doesn't mean he must be the undeniable most powerful Lantern, but I think he should be different.
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Old 08-04-2015, 03:48 PM   #42
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Whatever is done with Kyle, I'm of the opinion that he should not be in the Green Lantern Corps, even if he will forever be tied to the Green Lantern mythology. I think the Green Lantern mythos offers enough alternatives to where he could still have powers similar to a Green Lantern's, but not be in the Corps.

His whole deal was that he was a different sort of Lantern and he didn't have the Corps with him. That doesn't mean he must be the undeniable most powerful Lantern, but I think he should be different.

Do you feel that way because you think it would be best for the Kyle Rayner character? Or so that John Stewart has less competition holding a "spot" in the GL books?

I feel like many of us seem to be okay with GLs taking on a non GL role...as long as it isn't THEIR pet character. As a Hal fan, it sure would strengthen the position of Hal's character to not be crowded by all these other human GLs. They could make John a Darkstar, Guy a Vulcrapian warrior, Kyle could become God, Baz the new Human Bomb...but is that the right thing to do with those characters?

There are always fans of said character becoming a non GL that are actual fans of that character, but I feel like a lot of us just want to be rid of the competition.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:14 PM   #43
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Do you feel that way because you think it would be best for the Kyle Rayner character? Or so that John Stewart has less competition holding a "spot" in the GL books?

I feel like many of us seem to be okay with GLs taking on a non GL role...as long as it isn't THEIR pet character. As a Hal fan, it sure would strengthen the position of Hal's character to not be crowded by all these other human GLs. They could make John a Darkstar, Guy a Vulcrapian warrior, Kyle could become God, Baz the new Human Bomb...but is that the right thing to do with those characters?

There are always fans of said character becoming a non GL that are actual fans of that character, but I feel like a lot of us just want to be rid of the competition.
You nailed it right there, Dave. Exactly why were so many of Kyle's fans so angry and adamant for so long that Hal and the Corps should never come back? The only reason is that they didn't want any competition, of course. They wouldn't admit it, but that was their one and only real issue.

Then, after Hal and the Corps did come back, I noticed on the old DC boards that Kyle's fans were always suggesting some weird role for Guy that made no sense and that was actually designed to get him out of the way. And when I'd say no, I think Kyle should do that, they're freak out.

After all this time, that undercurrent is still there.
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:17 PM   #44
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You nailed it right there, Dave. Exactly why were so many of Kyle's fans so angry and adamant for so long that Hal and the Corps should never come back? The only reason is that they didn't want any competition, of course. They wouldn't admit it, but that was their one and only real issue.

Then, after Hal and the Corps did come back, I noticed on the old DC boards that Kyle's fans were always suggesting some weird role for Guy that made no sense and that was actually designed to get him out of the way. And when I'd say no, I think Kyle should do that, they're freak out.

After all this time, that undercurrent is still there.
I agree. I'd just point out it isn't solely a Kyle fan thing, it's fans of all four human GLS. (I don't think there ARE any Baz specific fans.)
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Old 08-04-2015, 05:26 PM   #45
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I agree. I'd just point out it isn't solely a Kyle fan thing, it's fans of all four human GLS. (I don't think there ARE any Baz specific fans.)
Point taken. But Kyle's fans have a long history of being the the most persistent and pernicious offenders about it.

The thing to do is just put out four well-conceived GREEN LANTERN titles with good writing, and let the chips fall where they may. Don't "get creative" and try to come up with a different concept. If one or two of the Lanterns need to be recast later as something else, then you can do that.

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Old 08-04-2015, 07:55 PM   #46
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Do you feel that way because you think it would be best for the Kyle Rayner character? Or so that John Stewart has less competition holding a "spot" in the GL books?

I feel like many of us seem to be okay with GLs taking on a non GL role...as long as it isn't THEIR pet character. As a Hal fan, it sure would strengthen the position of Hal's character to not be crowded by all these other human GLs. They could make John a Darkstar, Guy a Vulcrapian warrior, Kyle could become God, Baz the new Human Bomb...but is that the right thing to do with those characters?

There are always fans of said character becoming a non GL that are actual fans of that character, but I feel like a lot of us just want to be rid of the competition.
Well, that's a rather large implication you're making. For the sake of discussion, I think it's probably best to take what people say at face value instead of making assumptions about them, as if they have some insidious hidden motive.

When I think to what are, in my opinion, the best Kyle Rayner stories, he is not in the Green Lantern Corps, at least not in the classical sense. He's doing what he wants to do, how he wants to, and when he wants to in a not particularly structured environment or system. When I have seen him in the Green Lantern Corps, to me, he really didn't offer much that some other character couldn't have easily done, and he was considerably less interesting to me. Seeing as there are already an abundant amount of humans in the Corps, it seems redundant to put this guy in, who never really worked best there (in my opinion), and who wasn't originally meant to be in it. When there are so many guys who already can offer an experience of being in the Green Lantern Corps, why repeat that with yet another guy when you don't really have to? Especially when it can, potentially, hinder some particular aspects that made the character unique in the first place?

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Old 08-04-2015, 08:22 PM   #47
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You nailed it right there, Dave. Exactly why were so many of Kyle's fans so angry and adamant for so long that Hal and the Corps should never come back? The only reason is that they didn't want any competition, of course. They wouldn't admit it, but that was their one and only real issue.

Then, after Hal and the Corps did come back, I noticed on the old DC boards that Kyle's fans were always suggesting some weird role for Guy that made no sense and that was actually designed to get him out of the way. And when I'd say no, I think Kyle should do that, they're freak out.

After all this time, that undercurrent is still there.
DC has enough trouble making their flagship GL interesting, expecting them to do it to all four Earth Lanterns and in four separate titles is a pipe dream that'll never happen.

And to speak about Kyle fans, and for Kyle fans when a single poster on an online forum doesn't speak for an entire fanbase is just rude. Did I want Hal and the Corps to return while Kyle was a rookie? No, but it wasn't because of any hatred for Hal. In fact I liked Hal first, I just had/have more in common with Kyle. There's no secret grudge there, and to treat a large part of the overall fanbase like their opinions aren't valid because you think they thought anything different is bullshit. I refuse to be marginalized because my opinion differs from somebody else's because their favorite Lantern and mine aren't the same.

I think Kyle should be separated from the Corps proper so we can get back to Kyle stories and not Hal-lite stories or Corps stories. Since becoming a GL again after the Sin War, save a moment or two here and there, it's been nothing but Hal-lite. Moreso since the New52 began. Poor guy hasn't been seen with a sketch pad for more than a panel or two, had a social life, or even a real team-up with a hero not associated with GL's. And it's been like almost four years...

~KL~
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Old 08-04-2015, 08:24 PM   #48
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Point taken. But Kyle's fans have a long history of being the the most persistent and pernicious offenders about it.
I always thought it was John fans.
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:05 AM   #49
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Kyle should go back to Earth, and have it turn out to be a pre Flashpoint Earth that is his old home when he lived in NYC. He decides to stay there because that world needs his help and the Corps never returned there. Kyle could rebuild his old life, reconnect with old fan favorite supporting characters, and meet some new ones along the way.

When he decides to stay, he has the chance to tell the Corps he's not going to go home with them because he has a chance to stay and make a difference. Then his book and the GLC titles run separately for a few years.
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:17 AM   #50
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I'll say flatly that back in the day, well over that half of Kyle's fans were asswipes. Almost nothing that those people said was true. That's just how it was.

The "Kyle needs to be special" thing came from defensiveness about how he got his power ring. And it continues now, although most people today are unaware of its origin.

And yes, there are too many Earth Lanterns, but the one too many is Simon Baz.

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