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Old 05-21-2020, 07:15 PM   #1251
Mister Ed
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Originally Posted by Parrylakks View Post
All they did, all they ever wanted to do, was prevent synthetic technology from moving forward. They acted out of fear, pushing everyone, including the federation, to stand against synthetic development. I don't know if I'd necessarily call it a "bad" direction -- a limiting one, for sure, as we see how it caused some otherwise preventable things due to some medical procedure limitations, but still. It's not like the federation was fooled into committing some heinous crimes or anything. And arguably, given what one of the synthetics does of its own free will by the end of the season, the fears that made those Romulans act may have actually been legitimate. There's something out there that wants to kill everyone, and those Romulans really just want to protect us.
What did the Federation do to synthetics that already existed when the ban was enacted? The ban itself seems problematic, since the shows have previously established that synthetic intelligences are legally people, too. I'd say the ban and its aftermath ARE rather dark chapters in Federation history. (That's not even considering that before the ban it sure looks like they created these synthetics as disposable people to use in dangerous situations, exactly the kind of thing being argued against in Data's trial.) It also led to the Federation deciding to abandon any humanitarian aid for Romulus. That seems like a pretty dark direction as well.

And I have to say, an argument that says that the dark, questionable actions of a group might have been justified because something even more dark and deadly is out there...doesn't do a lot to convince me that the show ISN'T taking Star Trek in a much darker direction than I prefer.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:44 AM   #1252
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We see that B4 has been dismantled, so I would assume any synthetics that weren't destroyed on Mars during the attack were similarly dismantled, which means they could be rebuilt and turned back on after the ban was lifted once the existence and actions of the secret romulan sect was discovered. That's a thing, too, by the by. Both spies are removed from Starfleet and the ban is lifted by the end of the season. That state of affairs is known to us for a whopping 10 episodes! And you want a hopeful future? There's a huge subplot about a reclamation project on a Borg cube, involving the de-assimilation of the Borg.

Basically what I'm saying is that none of this makes it feel unlike Star Trek. The occasional F-bomb can be jarring, sure, but that's really the only thing that feels off, and even that's barely problematic at all (as it makes sense given the people who drop them).
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Old 05-22-2020, 03:02 PM   #1253
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We see that B4 has been dismantled, so I would assume any synthetics that weren't destroyed on Mars during the attack were similarly dismantled, which means they could be rebuilt and turned back on after the ban was lifted once the existence and actions of the secret romulan sect was discovered. That's a thing, too, by the by. Both spies are removed from Starfleet and the ban is lifted by the end of the season. That state of affairs is known to us for a whopping 10 episodes! And you want a hopeful future? There's a huge subplot about a reclamation project on a Borg cube, involving the de-assimilation of the Borg.

Basically what I'm saying is that none of this makes it feel unlike Star Trek. The occasional F-bomb can be jarring, sure, but that's really the only thing that feels off, and even that's barely problematic at all (as it makes sense given the people who drop them).
Personally I'm not a fan of profanity even when it "makes sense" for who uses it, and I would find it very jarring in Star Trek (Data swearing in Generations was one of THE stupidest moments in all of Trek, IMHO.) I prefer not to watch things where excessive profanity "makes sense" (and that is not Trek IMHO). But that in itself wouldn't keep me from watching it unless it was far more pervasive than I have heard.

What concerns me more is the level of graphic violence. Because from what I have heard and read, there are definitely some scenes in there that I would find unacceptable on that score. Obviously you do not. Diff'rent Stokes and all that. The descriptions of those scenes, even if there are only a few of them, tells me that I'm not watching this show with the kids, and at this point, I have no interest in a Star Trek that I can't share with the whole family, which has always been true of Trek in the past.

When you ADD that to the unnecessary profanity, and the arguably darker tone (and I will grant that you've made enough of a case there that I would be willing to give it a go if that were the only issue I had), I just don't think it is something I'm inclined to seek out. I'm certainly not going to subscribe to a streaming service to watch it (and I'm not inclined to avail myself of free trials of things I know I will never buy), but I'm also not enthused about getting it from the library if it eventually comes to DVD.

Frankly, I've come to the point where I may just have to accept that Star Trek has left me behind. Discovery has never sounded like something that would interest me. Picard seems to be going a direction I find questionable. The new movies are OK, but don't feel like real Star Trek. (And the fact that they are even considering letting Tarantino make an R-Rated Tarantino-Trek tells me a lot about how much the owners of Trek care about the audience I represent. Which is perfectly fair if people like me no longer make up enough of the audience, but still leaves me out.)

And I just recently discovered that the Trek novels, that have carried on the story from TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, and which I have been enjoying, are likely done after the next Voyager novel (which has been delayed massively as it is). After that, their novel slate looks to be solely NuTrek movie stuff, Discovery stuff, Picard stuff (and possibly novels for whatever other things CBS All Access adds to their lineup), with occasional TOS novels which may head the route of including stuff to fold it into Discovery's universe.

In that climate, even if I found Picard acceptable, it seems highly unlikely I would find it enough to my liking to justify bothering to cling to the Trek universe going forward. Probably best to just accept that Trek isn't being made for me any more, and just make do with the hours upon hours of shows and movies, and hundreds of books, that I already have.
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Old 05-22-2020, 05:58 PM   #1254
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I can understand where you're coming from, Ed, one of my brothers feels very much the same way. Being unable to share Picard with his children like our father shared TNG/DS9/Voyager with us has diminished much of his interest in it at all. He's also not one for R rated material in general, so he's not sure if he even wants to watch it on his own. So yeah, I can definitely understand the content issues on the face of content itself. I just don't agree with the people who say it doesn't make in world sense.
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