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Old 08-25-2013, 07:14 AM   #1
Evergreen City
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Question Retcon Question: How Did Sinestro Survive?

I've recently been reviewing the Green Lantern Corps first series, #201-224, which ended the original Volume 2 run. As we all remember, Sinestro was executed, and his death led to the destabilization/destruction of the Central Power Battery, thus turning the Corps into a corpse.

Sinestro had no appearances (except flashbacks) until Emerald Twilight, when a "hard-matter" version of him was faced off against Jordan on the rampage. Jordan broke his neck. Good for him.

He next appeared as a disembodied spirit during several of the Jordan Spectre stories, where he had great fun torturing our favorite spirit of redemption or vengeance or whatever the hell he was supposed to be.

And next, he shows up swinging in Rebirth. (Did you see that? ONE PUNCH! Still my favorite piece of art from Rebirth. Green streak Hal, bouncing across the moon. Damn, that felt good.)

Where, oh where, is the Geoffcon explanation for just HOW Sinestro was able to pull THAT one off? Somehow, in Volume 4, I missed it somewhere. If it was given. Surely Parallax didn't resurrect him too. I am confused. Which often happens when I'm writing fan fiction.

= terrific villain
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:58 AM   #2
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I think the Sinestro that was killed by Parallax Hal wasn't actually the real one, but some sort of mirror version or something. And Parallax and Sinestro were working together or something. But I didn't know Sinestro's dead spirit fought with Hal as the Spectre. Man Geoff Johns resurrecting Sinestro was god damn lazy as hell. I think because people at the time were so happy to have Hal and Sinestro back never questioned this until some time passed.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:37 PM   #3
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Geoff pretty much ignored the Spectre volume 4 series so it's like those appearances don't really count. The whole thing could be written off as a dream. And IIRC, Geoff was running with the idea that the Sinestro that appeared in ET was a decoy.

That just leaves Sinestro's execution in GLC #224. And if you think Geoff cared enough to follow any of Steve Englehart's of Joey Cavieleri's work you'd be wrong. I'm like you and wish it all fit together; that run of GL was some of the best stuff in the mythos. But Geoff Johns doesn't even respect his OWN continuity; he has no problem peeing all over other writer's work to mark his territory.
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Old 08-26-2013, 12:28 PM   #4
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Geoff pretty much ignored the Spectre volume 4 series so it's like those appearances don't really count. The whole thing could be written off as a dream. And IIRC, Geoff was running with the idea that the Sinestro that appeared in ET was a decoy.

That just leaves Sinestro's execution in GLC #224. And if you think Geoff cared enough to follow any of Steve Englehart's of Joey Cavieleri's work you'd be wrong. I'm like you and wish it all fit together; that run of GL was some of the best stuff in the mythos. But Geoff Johns doesn't even respect his OWN continuity; he has no problem peeing all over other writer's work to mark his territory.
As I recall, the line he took was that Sinestro was imprisoned in the battery at that point, rather than killed outright. Which, if you think about it, was kind of true, even though his body was killed. His "soul" ended up in the battery, which is when he discovered Parallax according to Johns. His "soul" went on to cause all kinds of trouble up until ET, when he inexplicably regained a body, thanks to the Guardians. But I don't blame Geoff for THAT ambiguity. ET never bothered to explain how he had a body at that point, so why would Johns? Geoff just said that the body we saw Hal kill was really a construct made by Sinestro with Parallax's help, and then implied that any appearances by Sinestro in the Spectre (and perhaps some of the other things hal dealt with then) were ALSO Parallax constructs employed just to torment Hal.

That WAS one of my least favorite aspects of Rebirth, though. I thought it would have been much better to have had Sinestro REALLY have been killed during ET, while arrogantly assuming that he could beat Hal in single combat. His being dead, and only recently returned to life (by Parallax hijacking some of the Spectre's power, possibly, during a recent storyline that had many of the Spectre's victims returning from the grave) would have worked much better, IMHO, since it would have done away with the problem of what the heck Sinestro had been doing during all the intervening time, while Hal's reputation was being somewhat rehabilitated, and Kyle was carrying on the GL legacy and making steps toward restarting the Corps.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:20 PM   #5
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As I recall, the line he took was that Sinestro was imprisoned in the battery at that point, rather than killed outright. Which, if you think about it, was kind of true, even though his body was killed. His "soul" ended up in the battery, which is when he discovered Parallax according to Johns. His "soul" went on to cause all kinds of trouble up until ET, when he inexplicably regained a body, thanks to the Guardians. But I don't blame Geoff for THAT ambiguity. ET never bothered to explain how he had a body at that point, so why would Johns? Geoff just said that the body we saw Hal kill was really a construct made by Sinestro with Parallax's help, and then implied that any appearances by Sinestro in the Spectre (and perhaps some of the other things hal dealt with then) were ALSO Parallax constructs employed just to torment Hal.
You're right sir. Thank you for reminding me. It had been a while since I thought of any of this.
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:10 PM   #6
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The explanation is simple. Sinestro did not survive, but Johns just ignored that fact. Like just about everything else prior to his run.
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:15 PM   #7
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Just like Marz ignored the fact that Sinestro was last seen as a disembodied spirit prior to his inexplicable appearance in ET. Ignoring Sinestro's previous status hardly started with Geoff Johns.

Though, unlike Marz, Geoff didn't just ignore it. He provided an explanation for it, halfhearted and inadequate as it may have been. (I already have gone on record about how I feel about the notion that Sinestro faked his death.)
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:48 PM   #8
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When you consider Infinite Crisis, Superboy punches, Flashpoint and the New 52 reboot, I think it's safe to say that Sinestro never got killed in the first place.
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:53 PM   #9
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I wouldn't bet against that, anyway. Good point.
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:26 PM   #10
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I think it was fill in the blanks continuity. In GLC before he was exacuted he said he had some great secret,implying that Sinestro knew more about the Green Lantern Corps then anyone now that the Guardians were gone.

You can make the leap that Sinestro's spirit merged with Parallx at this point,and once Parallax enters the story almost anything is posiable.

Except Specture stuff I think we are just ment to ignore that since nobody really liked that series.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:44 PM   #11
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Just like Marz ignored the fact that Sinestro was last seen as a disembodied spirit prior to his inexplicable appearance in ET. Ignoring Sinestro's previous status hardly started with Geoff Johns.
True. Though Sinestro's appearance in ET was, to the best of my knowledge, an editorial mandate. I just figured that story-wise, the Guardians resurrected him. (Sure seemed that way from panel to panel, anyway.)

But yes, as of the New 52, Sinestro has never been killed.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:33 PM   #12
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I'm still wondering who 'killed' Hal during Zero Hour.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:41 PM   #13
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Huh?
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:48 PM   #14
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I'm still wondering who 'killed' Hal during Zero Hour.
Not sure where you are going with this. Ollie thought he had killed Hal during the actual mini-series, but Hal survived, ending up on Oa with Kyle. Then once Oa blew up in GL #0, he was supposedly dead again, but wasn't. So... no one killed Hal during Zero Hour.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:48 PM   #15
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Nobody killed Hal in Zero Hour. Ollie shot him in the chest with an arrow, but it didn't kill him.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:54 PM   #16
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I don't think Zero Hour is still in continuity. I think the DCU went from Emerald Twilight directly to Final Night. Hal never tried to rewrite the timeline. Oa never exploded. Guy never had Vuldarian powers. John was never a Darkstar. Kyle never dated Donna or Jade.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:00 PM   #17
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I don't think Zero Hour is still in continuity. I think the DCU went from Emerald Twilight directly to Final Night. Hal never tried to rewrite the timeline. Oa never exploded. Guy never had Vuldarian powers. John was never a Darkstar. Kyle never dated Donna or Jade.
Though without Zero Hour, if ET was the same, then Hal went on a rampage trying to get power to "fix things", then when he got it, apparently didn't even try.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:40 AM   #18
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Nobody killed Hal in Zero Hour. Ollie shot him in the chest with an arrow, but it didn't kill him.
which is why I wrote 'killed' rather than killed
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:15 AM   #19
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Though without Zero Hour, if ET was the same, then Hal went on a rampage trying to get power to "fix things", then when he got it, apparently didn't even try.
So either he never got enough power, or he created the New 52.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:10 AM   #20
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So either he never got enough power, or he created the New 52.
Barry created the DCnU. And with Johns being in the position he is, that won't change.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:39 AM   #21
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which is why I wrote 'killed' rather than killed
But my point is, that Hal and Ollie had such a close relationship which made that such a poignant moment. It shocked Halallax enough to change the course of the fight.

Given that Ollie has been retconned out of existence, who shot the arrow? Was there an arrow?
Oh, and who was looked after Hal's ring and power battery and eventually gave it back to him in Rebirth?
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:18 PM   #22
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I don't think Zero Hour is still in continuity. I think the DCU went from Emerald Twilight directly to Final Night. Hal never tried to rewrite the timeline. Oa never exploded. Guy never had Vuldarian powers. John was never a Darkstar. Kyle never dated Donna or Jade.
Did Final Night happen, either? It wouldn't really fit into new continuity.

Of course, Hal as Parallax has been contradicted numerous times since the New 52 started. As of GLNG #1, he never became Parallax, and the CPB wasn't even destroyed. Then it changed months later, then it changed again...ugh.
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Old 08-30-2013, 02:43 PM   #23
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Barry created the DCnU. And with Johns being in the position he is, that won't change.
I'm just saying that we haven't seen Hal and Pandora in the same room together.

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Did Final Night happen, either? It wouldn't really fit into new continuity.
Wasn't it referenced in GL Vol. 05 #20?
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Old 08-30-2013, 03:29 PM   #24
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Possibly. But that issue, and WotFL as a whole, was one big inconsistent clusterfuck.

Also, Hal never became the Spectre, which of course would beg the question...if Final Night still happened and Hal died, then who resurrected him and why? Rebirth makes no sense at all in the New 52, so it would have to be something else.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:27 PM   #25
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The nU 52 makes such a mockery of continuity that I can't even seriously consider any timeline anymore. You can make a timeline from the silver age to 1985, and a post Crisis one up until Flashpoint where it more or less makes sense. Even then there are a lot of stories that have to be jettisoned.

But post Flashpoint? (BTW, when is "post Flashpoint" going to become a term? I call dibs) There isn't anything to hold onto. The GL and Batman mythos are supposed to be the ones more or less intact, but by virtue of those franchises simply interacting with other franchises, it all goes out the window. Hard Travelling Heroes? Zero Hour? Kyle and Connor? None of it happened because that Olliver Queen is nothing like the nU one. Hal couldn't have been the Spectre now because the nU one is different.

Did Katma Tui even exist anymore? Clearly, John is getting a nU origin and I have a feeling she won't even be a part of it. Did Guy's Vulcrapian era even happen? Gal Gardner? Writing that off makes reading Rebirth pointless in the nU 52, as well as other things. Really, GL and Batman didn't survive the reboot any more than the other DC franchises, no matter how proud Geoff Johns is of his body of work.

My favorite is Bruce burning through 5 Robins in 5 years. What a total jackoff if that was the case.
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