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View Poll Results: Which Star Wars Movie is Your Favorite?
Episode I: The Phantom Menace 1 1.12%
Episode II: Attack Of The Clones 1 1.12%
Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith 12 13.48%
Star Wars (aka Episode IV: A New Hope) 11 12.36%
Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back 34 38.20%
Episode VI: Return Of The Jedi 30 33.71%
Episode VII: The Force Awakens 0 0%
Episode VIII: The Last Jedi 0 0%
Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker 0 0%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-22-2017, 03:01 PM   #5126
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:53 PM   #5127
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Telling your customers that you've pissed them off on purpose is not smart.
Tell that to EA.

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Old 12-22-2017, 05:11 PM   #5128
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Two notes about your comment Sylent.

I actually liked that they killed off Snoke. I thought it was a good subversion anyway. Making him the next say Palpatine would have been too obviously.

Plus I'm sure they'll maybe explore who Rey's parents are in the next film. Who knows? Just because they're basically supposed to apparently be worthless doesn't mean the story behind them isn't interesting. This is why I'm very interested to see what'll happen in Episode IX.
Well, a little backstory on Snoke would have been nice before turning him into a jigsaw puzzle, though. Plus, he was built up to be this omnipotent dark Force user, yet he couldn't see a betrayal from an emotionally unstable Kylo coming?

Yeah, I'm sure they're not going to leave us with Rey's parents as drunkards and bums, especially if they're going to continue the "Force is strong in my family" and "midichlorians" spiel. Rey had to be the daughter of someone who was a Force user
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:19 PM   #5129
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It usually takes two viewings of "The Last Jedi" for the more hardcore Star Wars fans to like as you have to go through the five stages of grief:

1. Denial ("That's not my Star Wars!")
2. Anger ("I can't believe Luke did that!")
3. Bargaining ("If they did away with that entire scene and jokes")
4. Depression ("I feel really bad of what I saw in "The Last Jedi"")
5. Acceptance ("Yeah, there were a lot of bad things that were almost deal breakers in "The Last Jedi" but the substantive parts of the film blew my mind, made me re-evaluate the ideas and theories and does move the story in a different direction so it's a new a pure rehash of the Original Trilogy).


I went through "The Five Stages of Grief" with "The Last Jedi" and have accepted the film for what it is, which is it's an awesome film from a certain point of view.

I'll break down the common issues of the film from a certain point of view:

* Canto Bight was a complete waste of time and pointless. While I felt the same way initially, I looked at that scene from a certain point of view and found significance in that scene.
Canto Bight purpose was to set up broom boy at the end of the film and highlight the underlying theme of "The Last Jedi" in that old saying, "it doesn't matter where you're from but where you end up." That also, the Force will live on after Luke. Moreover, the Legend of Luke Skywalker continue and is the spark of the new Rebellion. Additionally, it expands the Star Wars universe in noting there are planets, societies and people that don't fall on either side of the war, but actually root for it as they literally profit from it. As Morpheus might say, "open your eyes," which Rose tells Finn at Canto Bight.
* Snoke's build up, backstory and power. I didn't have a problem with this in the same way I didn't have a problem with Darth Maul or the Emperor in "The Empire Strikes Back." And for Snoke's seemingly omnipotent power; it's typical for such a character's hubris to undermind himself. In "Return of the Jedi" we see the Emperor fail to sense Darth Vader's turn and we get on the of the greatest moment in the saga.


Also, once Snoke revealed he was the one that linked Kylo and Ren, Kylo learned to disguise his thoughts. He showed Snoke in his mind that he was going for the lightsaber to kill his enemy, and from a certain point of view he did, which is why Snoke didn't see it coming

* Rey's lineage. Also here, I was disappointed in the reveal in light of how "The Force Awakens" ended and waiting two years for that to be revealed. However, looking at it from a certain point of view, it's actually a great and wise decision because it expands the Star Wars rather than narrow its scope.
I believe Game of Thrones is partially to blame in that it paid off alot of fan theories about family linage; whereas "The Last Jedi" does not, which is the betterment of the saga. Rey's parents being revealed as nobodies and drunks is a big disappointment to fans; especially the ones with strong wants, beliefs and theories, but it reintroduces the literal notion of a hero being chosen because the quality of their character rather than the content of blood that flows in their veins. Remember in "The Phantom Menace" when midiclorians where introduced to explain why Anakin is strong with the Force? Well, Rey's lineage wipes away that notion and returns Star Wars to the idea of who ever is worthy will have the power of Thor. Or the idea of a Green Lantern Power Ring where a hero is chosen not born into. The concept of being worthy is more important than who your parents are. Remember, Kylo's parents are Han and Leia, but yet the lightsaber of Anakin/Luke went to Rey in "The Force Awakens."




* Luke Skywalker, his characterization and actions in the film. Yes, at first I felt it was off, especially with the completion of the final scene of "The Force Awakens." It really did feel like a F-U to the fans. However, from a certain point of view it makes sense.
In the context of this "Sequel Trilogy" (or "ST" what us Star Wars nerds are now calling the new trilogy), it makes in that Luke has totally given up. He cut himself off from the Force, so he has no idea that Rey is strong with the Force and no idea who she is or why she's there. In his mind, Rey could be a "fanboy" of the "Legend of Luke Skywalker" and wants him to take of the lightsaber and fight once again. And as such, the hero treats the fanboy with disdain and tosses the lightsaber away. Luke wants nothing to with the Jedi or the Resistance. He clearly says this numerous times. So while it's literally a bunch to the gut, it makes sense from a certain point of view. As for Luke in the final act... I too wanted something different. I wanted to see Luke levitate that X-Wing out of the water and physically show up and take down Kylo. But here's why it made sense for the events to happen as they occurred, Luke didn't know what planet the Resistance and Rey were during the final battle. Throughout the Star Wars films and more importantly here in "The Last Jedi" that Force users can communicate and see others in the Force, but not really know where they are. I mean, Kylo could see Rey, but she doesn't know where she is. And even if Luke did know what planet Rey and the Resistance were on, could have have survived the attack from the Walkers (the entire First Order army), much less make it there in time? Luke's projection would have killed anyone person as pointed out earlier in the film, so it shows how powerful Luke has become.
* Rehash of the Hoth scene from "Empire Strikes Back" While I do agree with that to a certain extent, "The Last Jedi" provided symbolism in it whereas the "Empire Strikes Back" did not. I felt a good bulk of the film revolved around a slow speed chase and not the Hoth-like scene.
One of the symbolic purposes of the "Hoth-like" scene is that passing of the torch from the old characters to the new. Much like Obi-Wan, Luke gives himself to the Force for Rey can take his place. I love the part where Rey shows up and lifts rocks the way Luke in "Empire." That scene was to say Rey is picking up where Luke is leaving off. Additionally, it's a scene where Leia passing the torch to Poe as a leader of the Resistance and therefore also serves as character growth for Poe. Remember, Poe is the hot shot pilot who's solution it to blow things up no matter the cost; which might be heroic but not the best quality in a leader. A leader must see the bigger picture and know when to retreat. Earlier in the film Poe did not want to retreat and Leia demoted him for that. Now Poe learns the value in retreat. The Hoth scene allows Luke and Leia to reunite and admit to themselves that Ben Solo is truly gone; beyond redemption
.


* Captain Phasma is the new Boba Fett.

* The humor and bizarre moments like finding out where green milk comes from. I just learn to accept them and move on.

I've still only seen the movie once, but I'm looking forward to seeing again and again because of the different direction "The Last Jedi" takes the story and questions it raises. The film provides a lot of food for thought.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:23 PM   #5130
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Originally Posted by Sylent_Asassin View Post
Well, a little backstory on Snoke would have been nice before turning him into a jigsaw puzzle, though. Plus, he was built up to be this omnipotent dark Force user, yet he couldn't see a betrayal from an emotionally unstable Kylo coming?

Yeah, I'm sure they're not going to leave us with Rey's parents as drunkards and bums, especially if they're going to continue the "Force is strong in my family" and "midichlorians" spiel. Rey had to be the daughter of someone who was a Force user
.
Well, there really are continuing the "Force is strong in my family" and "midichlorians" spiel, but people are linking that to the wrong character. The Skywalker bloodline continues in Kylo Ren. He may not the Skywalker name, but their bloodline flows threw him.
His entire goal was to be like his grandfather, Darth Vader.


And Kylo was not going unstable. He actually grew in knowledge in the scene with Snoke. Once Kylo learned that Snoke was reading his mind, he disguised his thoughts and let Snoke know that he was going for the lightsaber to kill his enemy. I don't think you should discount Kylo's strength in the Force. He is the grandson of Anakin and has enough rare power to give Luke a scare; a scare that cause Luke to want to kill him.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:43 PM   #5131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Primus View Post
It usually takes two viewings of "The Last Jedi" for the more hardcore Star Wars fans to like as you have to go through the five stages of grief:

1. Denial ("That's not my Star Wars!")
2. Anger ("I can't believe Luke did that!")
3. Bargaining ("If they did away with that entire scene and jokes")
4. Depression ("I feel really bad of what I saw in "The Last Jedi"")
5. Acceptance ("Yeah, there were a lot of bad things that were almost deal breakers in "The Last Jedi" but the substantive parts of the film blew my mind, made me re-evaluate the ideas and theories and does move the story in a different direction so it's a new a pure rehash of the Original Trilogy).


I went through "The Five Stages of Grief" with "The Last Jedi" and have accepted the film for what it is, which is it's an awesome film from a certain point of view.
I'm pretty much going through the 5 stages of Star Wars grief that you are talking about going through, very similar to yours. To me there is a lot more good in the film, so I'll accept it as part of the canon and move on to thinking about Episode IX.
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:15 PM   #5132
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Well, a little backstory on Snoke would have been nice before turning him into a jigsaw puzzle, though. Plus, he was built up to be this omnipotent dark Force user, yet he couldn't see a betrayal from an emotionally unstable Kylo coming?

Yeah, I'm sure they're not going to leave us with Rey's parents as drunkards and bums, especially if they're going to continue the "Force is strong in my family" and "midichlorians" spiel. Rey had to be the daughter of someone who was a Force user
.
I think the point of Snoke was that he was supposedly this all powerful thing, but in reality he wasn't THAT powerful. I actually liked Snoke's death because it showed that the weakness in the Dark Side is their overconfidence, and I found that fitting.

As for Rey's parents. I'm sure they'll explore more of them in Episode IX, although the fact that J.J loved Johnson's ideas does make me wonder what route they'll go.
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Old 12-23-2017, 02:37 AM   #5133
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ohfortheloveofgodpeople if TLJ upsets you that much just do what i do and IGNORE IT, don't have it in your home, don't look at it ever again (unless it's free on tv or something), and if your forced to talk about it like at work or something just don't and walk away, worked for me after TFA and i'm happier for it
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:43 AM   #5134
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Reimagined fight between Obi-Wan and Vader
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Old 12-25-2017, 06:54 PM   #5135
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Nerd power! The Last Jedi's Week 2 collapse was the biggest in box office history.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain.../#3e241d4c18d8
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Old 12-26-2017, 03:18 PM   #5136
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Yo.

*YOWTCH!!*

wow, I didn't think that any $$$ dropoff be that bad......but I cant say Im surprised either.
:/




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Old 12-26-2017, 03:40 PM   #5137
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I have a feeling that loss of money is the only thing Disney will listen to. So maybe the next one will be better but I don't know how they can fix it. I'm hoping for a stand alone Luke movie where he fights Snoke and gives him those scars.
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Old 12-26-2017, 04:56 PM   #5138
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They can do anything they want for Episode IX. Where the characters are left at the end of VIII gives plenty of room to play.

The Rebels are all together in one place. Rey has what she needs to continue training herself. They have the Falcon.

On the bad side, Kylo Ren is the leader, Hux is his henchman, and they have the galaxy under the First Order's thumb.

Any writer can run with that for the finale, and make changes if viewers didn't respond well to VIII. Johnson may have made a movie that many fans disliked, but he set up the chess pieces on the board rather nicely for JJ Abrams.
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:42 PM   #5139
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I have a feeling that loss of money is the only thing Disney will listen to. So maybe the next one will be better but I don't know how they can fix it. I'm hoping for a stand alone Luke movie where he fights Snoke and gives him those scars.
I think the only answer is for Disney to re-release the original, untouched SW trilogy in theaters and on blu ray and to officially announce that nothing since RotJ is canon. Problem fixed.
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Old 12-26-2017, 09:56 PM   #5140
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I think the only answer is for Disney to re-release the original, untouched SW trilogy in theaters and on blu ray and to officially announce that nothing since RotJ is canon. Problem fixed.
The one where Han shot first?
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:18 PM   #5141
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The one where Han shot first?
There is only the one where Han shot first. I don't recognize this "other" one.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:29 PM   #5142
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Right and right.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:48 PM   #5143
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Yo.

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I think the only answer is for Disney to re-release the original, untouched SW trilogy in theaters and on blu ray and to officially announce that nothing since RotJ is canon. Problem fixed.
I almost fell out my seat when I read this; SC, do me a favor and PUH-LEEEEEZE don't ever change.......?






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Old 12-27-2017, 07:20 PM   #5144
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I almost fell out my seat when I read this; SC, do me a favor and PUH-LEEEEEZE don't ever change.......?
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:18 PM   #5145
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I think the only answer is for Disney to re-release the original, untouched SW trilogy in theaters and on blu ray and to officially announce that nothing since RotJ is canon. Problem fixed.
But... but... what about my planet explosions with the pretty ring. Will you take that away from me?

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Old 12-28-2017, 06:36 PM   #5146
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But... but... what about my planet explosions with the pretty ring. Will you take that away from me?
Yeah, right? I suppose if I and everyone I know and love were going to die in a fiery instant, it would be some comfort to know the explosion was aesthetically pleasing.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:22 AM   #5147
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I KNOW HOW TO FIX TLJ...............................


2 words *special edition*

they take out the parts no one likes (Ray being a nobody, Snoke going out like a b!tch, all of Canto Bight, ect., ect., ect.)

if they start now we can have this "fixed" in time for next Christmas



( we all know their/there/they're in 20 to 30 years anyway, i say why wait)
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:50 PM   #5148
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I KNOW HOW TO FIX TLJ...............................


2 words *special edition*

they take out the parts no one likes (Ray being a nobody, Snoke going out like a b!tch, all of Canto Bight, ect., ect., ect.)

if they start now we can have this "fixed" in time for next Christmas



( we all know their/there/they're in 20 to 30 years anyway, i say why wait)
Nah, its canon now. Let it be and move forward. As much as I despise what Johnson did to Luke and some of the other events of VIII, there is pretty much a clean slate for IX where it can be anything they want. There is nothing about the end of VIII that prevents JJ from making a great finale aside from his ability.

I hope he does make it great, but I'm not holding out a lot of hope for it.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:08 PM   #5149
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Indications from previous posts are that spoiler tags are no longer necessary? I hope so, since I'm not using any.

When I complained (on another message board) about Snoke going out without any kind of explanation of who he was or how he came to power (basically being bereft of any backstory of any kind), it was pointed out that the same was true of Palpatine at the end of RotJ. I had to agree, and also to admit that it didn't bother me in that case, so I tried to figure out why I reacted differently.

I think it is because, when I was watching the original trilogy, I had no real sense of exactly what Palpatine had accomplished, so I didn't really care how he did it. I mean, before the prequels, did we even learn that Palpatine was personally responsible for the fall of the Republic? Or even that he was directly responsible for Anakin's fall to the dark side? We knew that he was Vader's boss, and that he was in charge of the Empire, but did we really know that he was the AUTHOR of those things?

And even if we DID, I know I, for one, had no attachment to the "Old Republic" or any idea of where Anakin came from or what his life was like before he fell.

I think the real reason why Snoke being such a cipher, who just appeared, then got taken out, with zero backstory bothers me is that I actually CARED about the stuff that he destroyed. He seemed to be personally responsible for the fact that any and all "happy endings" I imagined from Episode 6 were nullified, and for the most part, nullified off-screen, years before Episode 7 even came out, with no real explanation. I wanted backstory on Snoke because I wanted it to make SENSE to me that the Empire (by another name) was essentially just as powerful all this time after we saw Palpatine fall. I wanted it to make sense to me that the Dark Side was still going strong. That Luke's attempts to restore the Jedi ended in abject failure, and that Han and Leia had their SON become a force of evil despite their influence and Luke's influence.

Snoke essentially was the explanation for how everything from the original trilogy went to crap, so to have HIM go out without any kind of backstory established just underlined the feeling that they just arbitrarily trashed all that the Rebels accomplished in Eps. 4-6 solely to justify a new trilogy of movies, without putting any real effort into getting from point A to point B.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:24 PM   #5150
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I saw TLJ over the weekend for the second time, and as most people said, it is a little better the second time around. It still has the same glaring issues that I mentioned before (Canto Bight is still useless, Leia's space walk is still stupid, Phasma still sucks, etc.), but I appreciated it more this time.

Many people hated how Luke was portrayed, but as I mentioned previously, that's not a far reach from Obi Wan and Yoda's characters. Both were strange, old hermits who ran away and secluded themselves. I could have done without the "blue milk" scene, but the rest of it paralleled Kenobi and Yoda for the most part... and Luke's final stand would have meant more if he faced Kylo in-person rather than using Force chicanery.

I still have a problem with no backstory on Snoke. Ed articulated his reasoning quite well on it because it destroyed the happy ending of RotJ, but for me, this is a guy who single-handedly rose from the ashes of the Empire and built a new one, the First Order, corrupted Kylo Ren, made him turn to the dark side against Luke, kill Han and destroy the Jedi temple and its disciples/students. Snoke also demonstrated great power and Force wielding ability, which alone should warrant some kind of origin before treating him like a Voltron Ro-Beast and offing him.

I realize that people are saying, "But, Palpatine had no origin story at the time," however that was 35 years ago. Expectations change in 3 decades. Besides, back then, people were more focused on the ahead-of-its-time effects.
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