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Old 10-21-2020, 06:49 AM   #51
Big Blue Lantern
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I already had little faith in writers doing Guy justice before hand, but now that this is going to be a virtue signalling woke fest I definitely have no faith in them.
I've never exactly understood that criticism, especially for something that hasn't even gone into production yet. Guy is going to get his shot in live-action, as are the other 3. That's a huge deal for a Green Lantern fan.

Is there some valid trepidation surrounding Guggenheim returning? Sure, that's valid. I hope he's learned more about what makes the Green Lantern mythos unique in the last 9 years, and we get a space opera instead of "boy meets girl" types of storylines this time. And no, I don't want to see any of the Grahame-Smith's cringefest humor from Lego Batdouche make it's way into this series, but I doubt that it will. I'm going to be optimistic that these guys did their homework.
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Old 10-21-2020, 07:44 AM   #52
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Is there some valid trepidation surrounding Guggenheim returning? Sure, that's valid. I hope he's learned more about what makes the Green Lantern mythos unique in the last 9 years, and we get a space opera instead of "boy meets girl" types of storylines this time.
I think it's less trepidation about Guggenheim not "understanding" GL because of the GL movie and way more trepidation about Guggenheim using "The Lantern" HBO Max series as an opportunity to continue telling the kinds of SJW "important" stories as he's continually been prone to usher out there, moreso in recent years in the Arrowverse.
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Old 10-21-2020, 09:51 AM   #53
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I think it's less trepidation about Guggenheim not "understanding" GL because of the GL movie and way more trepidation about Guggenheim using "The Lantern" HBO Max series as an opportunity to continue telling the kinds of SJW "important" stories as he's continually been prone to usher out there, moreso in recent years in the Arrowverse.
Well, I'm not sure what to say about that. I enjoy the Arrowverse immensely (although I'm way behind on Legends) and most of the stories that I hear labeled as "SJW" (whatever that means), are just reality. Different people have different characteristics, and that should be easy to digest. In the scope of a story that includes a sentient smallpox virus, insectile aliens, and a living planet, Alan being gay or something of that nature is comparatively simple to believe.
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Old 10-21-2020, 10:43 AM   #54
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Well, I'm not sure what to say about that. I enjoy the Arrowverse immensely (although I'm way behind on Legends) and most of the stories that I hear labeled as "SJW" (whatever that means), are just reality. Different people have different characteristics, and that should be easy to digest. In the scope of a story that includes a sentient smallpox virus, insectile aliens, and a living planet, Alan being gay or something of that nature is comparatively simple to believe.
Any one of these things by themselves is one thing... but for the last few seasons of Flash, Arrow, and Supergirl & Batwoman (I lump them together because I only watched a few Supergirls and none of Batwoman)... yes, there is an agenda first and foremost. For Arrow and Flash and even Legends of Tomorrow they held it back for a bit... but ultimately, agenda became first.

For me, Flash was awesome for 4 seasons with some disclaimers about season 4. Arrow, probably 5. Legends of Tomorrow, 1 and 2 for sure. After that... c'mon... it's not what it was. And what they're doing is less entertainment and more... something else.
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Old 10-21-2020, 01:24 PM   #55
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...Alan being gay or something of that nature is comparatively simple to believe.
It’s not that Alan being gay isn’t believable. It’s that the character has an 80 year history in which that aspect only lasted a couple years and was consigned to an alternate reality (and is done now). The character had natural-born children. He had a legacy, but the creators chose to ignore all that to pander to a demographic for PC reasons. That’s insulting. The fact that they chose to ignore (admittedly, for now) other long-standing GLs in favor of more recent, superfluous ones that happen to be a black Muslim and a Hispanic woman, while true to recent comics, seems to reinforce that approach. It just feels like one of those studio committee pat-on-the-back approaches to picking characters.

But, as I say, ultimately it doesn’t matter to me because I’m not a big TV guy and was never going to subscribe to HBO Max. Even if this was my dream show (which I guess would be a period piece with Hal, Ollie, and John set in the 70s), I’d probably wait until the whole thing was done and buy it on blu ray.

But also, as I say (sincerely), I’m glad that appeals to at least one fan here. The Arrow stuff, Supergirl, etc. is not my taste, but I’m glad for the people for whom this does scratch the itch.
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Old 10-22-2020, 01:08 AM   #56
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It’s not that Alan being gay isn’t believable. It’s that the character has an 80 year history in which that aspect only lasted a couple years and was consigned to an alternate reality (and is done now). The character had natural-born children. He had a legacy, but the creators chose to ignore all that to pander to a demographic for PC reasons. That’s insulting. The fact that they chose to ignore (admittedly, for now) other long-standing GLs in favor of more recent, superfluous ones that happen to be a black Muslim and a Hispanic woman, while true to recent comics, seems to reinforce that approach. It just feels like one of those studio committee pat-on-the-back approaches to picking characters.

But, as I say, ultimately it doesn’t matter to me because I’m not a big TV guy and was never going to subscribe to HBO Max. Even if this was my dream show (which I guess would be a period piece with Hal, Ollie, and John set in the 70s), I’d probably wait until the whole thing was done and buy it on blu ray.

But also, as I say (sincerely), I’m glad that appeals to at least one fan here. The Arrow stuff, Supergirl, etc. is not my taste, but I’m glad for the people for whom this does scratch the itch.
Im not very involved like you guys here but could you imagine if dc made static a white blonde hair blue eyed European person instead of black? People will call it white washing and try to tie it with colinization by racist white people
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:42 AM   #57
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Im not very involved like you guys here but could you imagine if dc made static a white blonde hair blue eyed European person instead of black? People will call it white washing and try to tie it with colinization by racist white people
Static is a character where his race is important to his character, both narratively and behind the scenes. Some characters have a race or national origin interwoven into their personality or story, but that's not the case with most characters. It's true that writers can't change Black Panther or Red Skull in that way and have either one still be the same character. However, characters like Nick Fury, Aquaman, Wally West, Kingpin, Jimmy Olsen, Deadshot, Deathstroke, Bane, etc...have all undergone some kind of change in some type of media, but it doesn't change the important aspects of their respective character.

As for sexual orientation, it has to be handled in a certain way. I recently spoke with a friend of mine who is transgendered, and I asked if she remembered how LGBTQ people reacted to Earth 2 Alan being introduced as gay in 2012. She said that it was met with mixed feelings because Alan's relative obscurity combined with his lack of history as a gay character made the attempt at inclusivity seem like tokenism. The HBO Max show seems like they'll start with a fresh slate since Alan is a Corps member rather than a Starheart/Green-powered character, but they'll still have to be careful in how this character is built in that area.
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:50 AM   #58
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Static is a character where his race is important to his character, both narratively and behind the scenes. Some characters have a race or national origin interwoven into their personality or story, but that's not the case with most characters. It's true that writers can't change Black Panther or Red Skull in that way and have either one still be the same character. However, characters like Nick Fury, Aquaman, Wally West, Kingpin, Jimmy Olsen, Deadshot, Deathstroke, Bane, etc...have all undergone some kind of change in some type of media, but it doesn't change the important aspects of their respective character.

As for sexual orientation, it has to be handled in a certain way. I recently spoke with a friend of mine who is transgendered, and I asked if she remembered how LGBTQ people reacted to Earth 2 Alan being introduced as gay in 2012. She said that it was met with mixed feelings because Alan's relative obscurity combined with his lack of history as a gay character made the attempt at inclusivity seem like tokenism. The HBO Max show seems like they'll start with a fresh slate since Alan is a Corps member rather than a Starheart/Green-powered character, but they'll still have to be careful in how this character is built in that area.
Regarding static and his race Tinkerbell in the live action peter pan casted a black actress. Now can you honestly say thats not a agenda with tokenism? What if marvel decided for the mcu version of wolverine is a gay bi or trans Latino just for diversity? One of my older brothers friends whos gay feels things are being forced politicaly and the lgbtq community is being exploited rather than accepted. I respect him because the same community he represents also rips him apart for having a different opinion. The same happens with the women and people of color communites. Its become a your with us or against us mentality. Look at ice cube and 50 cent currently as a example where cube is helping trump with the platnum plan and 50 cent stated hes voting trump do to bidens tax hikes up 68 percent in new york. The black community now calls them sellouts. My aunt who is 71 who says she is a feminist and belives women should have free choice also verbally attacks women whohave different views or vote red. Dosent that defeated the purpose of feminism and equality? She also thinks the bible is sexist where its all male dominated . What we all should be asking despite beliefs wheres does equality and political agenda stop? Can they be separate or can they be connected? You may think im racist or homophobic im far from it but reality is equality will never happen. I dont think any race or gender or sex is better than anyone. If equality was a real thing the world would be a different place. Hell id love to wake up tomorrow with peace on earth no wars no depression no darkness no homelessness or unwanted kids filling up foster care but life isnt that. Im not trying to make people feel less human or terrible or guilty and shitty but we all have to realize life will never be perfect all we can do is take it by each day and even when people disagree we still have to exist with eachother when we all wake up tomorrow. I look at it like this people need to be grateful to be alive and healthy because others are dying from lord knows what and have bad health. Be grateful for what you have. I been banned from here 6 years ago and wile catching up on threads i missed before returning i believe people expected asshole conspiracy nut tazz. Oviously im not the same guy 6 years ago. I have my moments but i toned down. A lot of things in the real world changed me
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:46 AM   #59
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Regarding static and his race Tinkerbell in the live action peter pan casted a black actress. Now can you honestly say thats not a agenda with tokenism? What if marvel decided for the mcu version of wolverine is a gay bi or trans Latino just for diversity? One of my older brothers friends whos gay feels things are being forced politicaly and the lgbtq community is being exploited rather than accepted. I respect him because the same community he represents also rips him apart for having a different opinion. The same happens with the women and people of color communites. Its become a your with us or against us mentality. Look at ice cube and 50 cent currently as a example where cube is helping trump with the platnum plan and 50 cent stated hes voting trump do to bidens tax hikes up 68 percent in new york. The black community now calls them sellouts. My aunt who is 71 who says she is a feminist and belives women should have free choice also verbally attacks women whohave different views or vote red. Dosent that defeated the purpose of feminism and equality? She also thinks the bible is sexist where its all male dominated . What we all should be asking despite beliefs wheres does equality and political agenda stop? Can they be separate or can they be connected? You may think im racist or homophobic im far from it but reality is equality will never happen. I dont think any race or gender or sex is better than anyone. If equality was a real thing the world would be a different place. Hell id love to wake up tomorrow with peace on earth no wars no depression no darkness no homelessness or unwanted kids filling up foster care but life isnt that. Im not trying to make people feel less human or terrible or guilty and shitty but we all have to realize life will never be perfect all we can do is take it by each day and even when people disagree we still have to exist with eachother when we all wake up tomorrow. I look at it like this people need to be grateful to be alive and healthy because others are dying from lord knows what and have bad health. Be grateful for what you have. I been banned from here 6 years ago and wile catching up on threads i missed before returning i believe people expected asshole conspiracy nut tazz. Oviously im not the same guy 6 years ago. I have my moments but i toned down. A lot of things in the real world changed me
This is too much to unpack with the time that I currently have, so I'll stick to the character-based issue. I don't know who cast Tinkerbell or why, but since Tinkerbell isn't human, it automatically makes her skin a mute point. I feel that way about all non-human characters. Even if that character resembles a human, that resemblance is irrelevant. Therefore any actor/actress meeting the qualifications could be cast.

As for Wolverine, it wouldn't make much sense for the Fox version to be gay since he was shown to be not only hetero, but a little oversexed. That being said, there is an alternate version of Wolverine that is gay, and in a relationship with that Earth's version of Hercules, so it wouldn't be completely out of left field for that to happen in some adaptation at some point.
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:09 PM   #60
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As for Wolverine, it wouldn't make much sense for the Fox version to be gay since he was shown to be not only hetero, but a little oversexed. That being said, there is an alternate version of Wolverine that is gay, and in a relationship with that Earth's version of Hercules, so it wouldn't be completely out of left field for that to happen in some adaptation at some point.
But is that alternative version of wolverine what the hardcore fans really want? For real i really want you to answer that honestly and thats a optional question for everyone if they want to answer it. Seems to me they would rather alienate the fans who have been fans for 20 30 40 50 years because the companies assume identity politics will sell. Hows that going btw in terms of sales? I said this before ill say again after watching youngrippa because i agree when he said alternate timelines and multiverse need to end. Stick to one timeline
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Old 10-22-2020, 07:01 PM   #61
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But is that alternative version of wolverine what the hardcore fans really want? For real i really want you to answer that honestly and thats a optional question for everyone if they want to answer it. Seems to me they would rather alienate the fans who have been fans for 20 30 40 50 years because the companies assume identity politics will sell. Hows that going btw in terms of sales? I said this before ill say again after watching youngrippa because i agree when he said alternate timelines and multiverse need to end. Stick to one timeline
You'd have to ask someone who tracks X-men more closely than me. I used to read them regularly in the late 90s, but my reading of them has been sparse in recent years.

As for sales, they were record-setting in 2019. I'm not sure how much that's due to the big companies diversifying their character lineups, or that the characters have never been more visible outside of print.

As for multiverses and alternate timelines, I understand that they're not everyone's cup of tea, but I don't see them going away.
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Old 10-22-2020, 07:30 PM   #62
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You'd have to ask someone who tracks X-men more closely than me. I used to read them regularly in the late 90s, but my reading of them has been sparse in recent years.
Fair enough
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