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Old 05-27-2017, 05:50 AM   #1
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So while Kyle is training Baz he creates a few dozen constructs of himself in his various suits. Ion 1.0 with his arm around Ion 2.0, White Lantern Kyle, his more Corps standard uniform after becoming Parallax, his Jim Lee suit...

So is the entire DCU already shifting back to Pre-New52 history with the picture of Jade in Kyle's room back on Oa in the last issue of GLC or is this just artists not being told this or that happened?

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Old 05-27-2017, 02:08 PM   #2
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...So while Kyle is training Baz he creates a few dozen constructs of himself in his various suits. Ion 1.0 with his arm around Ion 2.0, White Lantern Kyle, his more Corps standard uniform after becoming Parallax, his Jim Lee suit...
I liked that bit. I bet IonFan would dig it if he were reading the books.
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Old 05-28-2017, 08:18 PM   #3
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So while Kyle is training Baz he creates a few dozen constructs of himself in his various suits. Ion 1.0 with his arm around Ion 2.0, White Lantern Kyle, his more Corps standard uniform after becoming Parallax, his Jim Lee suit...

So is the entire DCU already shifting back to Pre-New52 history with the picture of Jade in Kyle's room back on Oa in the last issue of GLC or is this just artists not being told this or that happened?

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This why I hate the constant rebooting over the last few years. Its hard to keep track of stuff.
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Old 05-29-2017, 02:17 PM   #4
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I hate when they treat the Green Lantern Corps as a military force instead of a police corps. A misunderstanding we had never suffered before the Geoff Johns's run (I still remember Kilowog as a scientific-technician guy, not the sarge they have transformed him in…).

And sure, I don´t like this story with Baz and Cruz playing soldiers in Mogo.
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Old 05-29-2017, 05:30 PM   #5
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Why is Kyle training Baz and not Jess? Kinda a wasted oportunity considering they are the youngest and also both are latinxs (or prob bc of that?) hope they team up or someting later and not with lackluster Baz

I guess John know the effect Kyle has on girls
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Old 05-29-2017, 06:05 PM   #6
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John wanted Kyle to keep it in his pants. Baz was taking a risk enough letting Kyle go and find her. I think Kyle's banged the most Lantern chicks at this point.

Kyle's Hispanic background has about as much influence on who he is as the 1/8th Portuguese in my bloodline has on me. Which is barely any at all. I was surprised when he spoke Spanish in Omega Men...

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Old 05-29-2017, 08:52 PM   #7
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Anyway, that Spanish root is Pure-New52, isn´t it? I was also shocked when I saw Kyle speaking Spanish in Omega Men. What I remember is Kyle being half-Irish or something like that...
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:36 AM   #8
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He was presented as Irish/Irish American the entirety of the original Ron Marz run. And his father was said to be Aaron Rayner, who's father knew Buck Wargo. After Winick didn't do his homework, as if introducing a gay teen wasn't enough for that MTV generation, he decided Kyle needed to be a minority and made his father Spanish with the supposed name of Gabriel Vasquez. The immediate issue after that was a Secret Files issue where Jade used random Spanish words in her day to day talk like she'd been doing it for years and from issues#150 to like #153 Kyle had a horrible new ring design as well as a darker skin tone.

I don't mind if he's part Spanish on his Dad's side, but his Dad wasn't a big part of his life. At all. Him suddenly being that Spanish wasn't needed when the character sold fine as just another white guy with black hair. It's like me getting a tan, learning a little Portuguese, and acting like a minority just because I'm a little of this or that.

They basically pulled an Iris West before it was popular. But it wasn't an adventure in the timestream that made him suddenly more Spanish. It was a writer either not doing his homework or just not caring. His dad was shown as being a white guy with a bunch of aliases working for the government, who's brother Kyle mistook for his dad who wound up trying to exploit his power during an adventure with GA's son Conner Hawke.

I liked bits of Omega Men but the series focused too much on alien politics and not enough cosmic superhero'ing. I even liked the general concept of Kyle being an Omega Lantern. He was raised Catholic though by his Irish mother, so the quote should've been something in Gaelic.

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Old 05-30-2017, 03:58 AM   #9
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Mexican from his father side be exact. Not Spanish.

(gotta love how anytime someone mention this some GL fans always go out of their way to explain how he should NOT be hispanic/latino lol trumpies much? XD jk)

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Old 05-30-2017, 07:09 AM   #10
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As I've recently read most of Ron Marz´s issues and it has been years since the last time I reread Judd Winick's, I'd completely forgotten about those changes in Kyle's past and skin (!). I guess it wasn´t Winick's fault but Superboy-Prime puches's

And yes, Gabriel Vasquez sounds more like a Mexican name than like a Spanish one (in this case, it would probably be Gabriel Vázquez).
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Old 05-30-2017, 08:26 AM   #11
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Mexican from his father side be exact. Not Spanish.

(gotta love how anytime someone mention this some GL fans always go out of their way to explain how he should NOT be hispanic/latino lol trumpies much? XD jk)
I'm just stating for the first eight or so years of the character's publication history [when he was the 3rd best selling franchise not including anything with Superman or Batman] he was just another white dude with black hair in the DCU. And since that one page in that one issue where it mattered his dad was Mexican... that's ALL he's good for now. THAT'S his defining characteristic. Another box checked off the list. Make a Mexican character. Don't just make a character Mexican.

We've got a pretty cool Ghost Rider right now in Robbie Reyes, you think DC would ever make a Hispanic Flash? I doubt it just because of Speedy Gonzales jokes... and that's a damn shame. Hell, aside from Aquagirl/Lorena [I really miss that one], the current Blue Beetle, and Vibe.... I can't think of any other Hispanic DCU characters other than supporting characters like Renee Montoya.

And for the record I don't support hate mongers, but I also don't vote for dumb bitches. I was rooting for Bernie if it's anybody's business.

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Old 05-30-2017, 11:05 AM   #12
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Well I dont mind that Kyle is latino the same way I dont care Hal is Jew, John is black, Baz is muslim and Jess a woman. The fact Baz and to a lesser extend Jess are bad characters who no one asked for when there was enough already is another different thing.

Actually, I LIKE that Kyle is not only latino but Mexican (the nerve!) if only to trigger snowflakes (trumpies or not--not saying anyone here is but-) waaah white genocide waaah

Kyle was already one of my fav characters before he found out about his father and that he was hispanic, this only made him more comfortable to read knowing he wasnt a white republican like Hal Jordan used to be in the silver age (he kinda still is lol)

What you are describing in your mind is an stereotype of what a latino/hispanic/mexican is supposed to be or act. In other words the textbook definition of prejudice

Latinos are prob the most diverse race/ethnicy in the world they could be the whitest or brownest person you ever seen. Hell your mom or dad or grandad could be of hispanic origin and you dont even know it XD

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Old 05-30-2017, 01:24 PM   #13
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Well I dont mind that Kyle is latino the same way I dont care Hal is Jew...
The only reference I remember to Hal being Jewish was in the cartoon. In fact, there's some old Justice League comic where the League is celebrating Christmas and Hal makes a point of telling Barry that he knows he celebrates Hanukkah, which implied at the time that Hal celebrated Christmas.



I don't mind if he is since religion and genealogy have never been a big part of his story, but I can't think of any Jewish background in Hal's comics.
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:24 PM   #14
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Tom King on Hal Jordan:

"75 years ago these Jewish creators could not create explicitly Jewish characters. It’s nice to know that now we can.”

From Darkseid War Green Lantern:



http://jewishstandard.timesofisrael....-galactic-cop/

Thats why I love King. He does his research.
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:40 PM   #15
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What you are describing in your mind is an stereotype of what a latino/hispanic/mexican is supposed to be or act. In other words the textbook definition of prejudice

Latinos are prob the most diverse race/ethnicy in the world they could be the whitest or brownest person you ever seen. Hell your mom or dad or grandad could be of hispanic origin and you dont even know it XD
I mentioned no stereotype, just that a Mexican father who wasn't around shouldn't impact his son's life growing up like it magically has now. He quite literally went from being a white dude with black hair to his girlfriend [who I don't believe is of Hispanic heritage] throwing in Spanish words in day to day convo like they'd been doing it for years and being a character like something out of MTV's the Real World. And believe it or not... that's where Judd Winick first got his start.

I'm not saying that Kyle HAS to act this way or that way, just that changing him over night was done very poorly. Rather than magically say he learned Spanish... say he took a class. This was just the icing on the cake as far as what Winick and later Raab did with Kyle Rayner. The way Kyle talked, the way Jade acted, and later with Kyle becoming Hal-lite to the point of saying "Great Guardians!" Aside from the Hand of God storyline, I mostly stuck with GL during that era for Dale Eaglesham's art and later out of needing to complete the whole series despite how bad Raab's writing was.

Also, assuming I'm a prejudice Trump supporter made me LOL... my wife is half Spanish. And I'm as much Sub-Saharan African as I am Portuguese... (I did that DNA test). But again, just because I found out about that... doesn't mean I'm gonna start acting like a stereotypical man from Portugal [I honestly don't even know what that'd be] the way Kyle was suddenly presented as more Mexican the issue after the reveal with his dad.

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Old 05-30-2017, 02:53 PM   #16
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Thats why I love King. He does his research.
I remember when Tom King was all about some Kyle Rayner in Omega Men as well... and one of the defining characteristics he mentioned was the Mexican heritage. Not being Irish. Not being an artist. Or even a former Ion or Parallax...

"People forget he's a character of color, and he has this rich history. He was the Green Lantern I read for 10 years. I write sexy Dick Grayson in Grayson, and I think Kyle's a sexy character, so I kind of like that part about him, so I wanted to bring that out.

He's a sexy character of color now. Y'know... cause THAT'S what made him so popular to begin with... right?

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Old 05-30-2017, 02:57 PM   #17
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Kyle was a L.A. Kid you know?

If you dont know what that means is that there is already a mexican/chicano culture there so one only have to add 1+1 it made perfect sense for me when I read it the first time.
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:58 PM   #18
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I remember an early issue saying something about his "California tan..." or is that supposed to be slang for somebody with mixed heritage?

EDIT: It's also never been said exactly where Kyle was born... however his mom had to run from wherever it was she and his father were living. LA is where they landed, not where they started.

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Old 05-30-2017, 02:59 PM   #19
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He also said:

"Kyle is us. Unlike every green lantern, he wasn’t chosen for his special specialness. He’s just a guy who was leaving a club and an alien gave him a ring and said save the universe, to take on the mission of the greatest of lanterns. What would that do to you? How would you respond? And after you did, after you saved the universe, died twice trying to save it again, realized that there were others who could take your place, would you go on, would you keep fighting? "
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:12 PM   #20
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I get it, dude knows his stuff. However his main selling point is "sexy man of color". That's what he wanted to write. Before Omega Men I don't think Kyle ever said one phrase in Spanish. He DID however speak in Gaelic. And during Marz 'Homecoming?' arc he knew a little French when getting dazed and confused by Fatality's trank dart.

I don't care if he acts more Hispanic, but give me the story between points A and C. If I ever wrote Kyle for DC and they insisted for me to play up the minority angle, I'd do it. However I'd mention how he took a class or something to speak a fluent foreign language without the ring translator. Or I'd mention how that one scripture was the only thing he bothered to memorize in the language. I have at least three friends with Mexican heritage, none of them know any Spanish.

I also had a gripe with how Kyle's mom went from being an old lady to looking like a bangable 40-something.

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Old 05-30-2017, 03:18 PM   #21
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Kyle IS a sexy character. Not even Hal fans can deny this.

Edited: lol lets not confuse sexy with sexualized


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I used to use Freddy Prinze Jr. in the 90's early 00's for reference when doing more detailed sketches of Kyle Rayner.




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If only I had seen this post erlier we could have skiped the whole racial discussion lol

Freedy Prinze Jr. is latino, bilingual (speaks spanish) half Puerto Rican from his father side. And is also LA kid (fun fact he did the voice of James Vega from ME3) this is probably the best example you could have come with. There are many other actors of hispanic ethnicity that peaple are not aware about like Lynda Carter/Wonder Woman, Oscar Issac, Cameron Diaz, Martin Sheen et cetera. (not naming the ones with latin names)

Just found out that in Alien Covenant two of the crew where latinos and I couldt even tell until I saw the cast names on wiki (hint /spoiler: they where the last ones to die)




PS: I was half joking with the trump thing btw but I assume everyone is trump supporter until proved otherwise lol nothing personal. America really failed the world on this one, its like luthor becoming prez so unreal

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Old 05-30-2017, 03:23 PM   #22
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Captivating discussion… (much better than arguing about how the Green Lantern franchise should be fixed, by the way)
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:28 PM   #23
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I just don't look at comics that way. A chick dressed in fishnets like Black Canary or Zatanna might be sexy... but a two dimensional fictional character isn't sexy themselves. I don't read comics for that. I don't know anybody who does.

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Old 05-30-2017, 03:38 PM   #24
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I wouldn´t define Kyle as a sexy character, but a young and still a bit hot-headed guy with a strong inclination to fall in love with the first pretty girl he meets. In this sense, I liked that Winick's issue in which he proposes to Jade and she laughs at him for being so impulsive.
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:42 PM   #25
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During the end of Winick's run [issue #162 or #163] Jade asked Kyle what he'd have done if they'd been pregnant. He said he would've proposed again.

Funny fact, Jade was surprisingly in Kyle's shower at least three times on panel. I will admit Kyle's the most sexual GL, as one of those instances had him running to the shower to give it to Jade for ten minutes. It was the 'Our Worlds At War' tie in special. Was pretty good and Kyle fought a Sinestro construct created by Brainiac...

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