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Old 12-03-2017, 08:04 PM   #1
Darth_Andrea
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Default A talk about the the Fear Cult known as the Jedi

I have always seen the Clone Wars as the culmination of the failure of the Jedi Order. For thousands of years the Jedi have dealt with their own fallen, both, through the Sith were were originally created by Jedi who were banished from the Order, and through those who "Fell To The Dark".



The Jedi has for thousands of years held a deep secret fear of emotion. They were convinced it lead to the Dark Side. And that the Dark Side is a bad thing. Yet they taught their members to fight. Combat no matter how you parse the words is a aggressive and emotional act.

Oh Jedi claim they remain calm and feel nothing. I don't believe this is the case. Mace Windu is a perfect example of this. Through Vaapad he was able to express his passions and emotions by feeding off the emotions of his opponents. And it showed, In Episode 3 with his fight with Palpatine it became very clear that while Mace was feeding off the dark side coming from Palpatine he was being overwhelmed by it emotionally. Which is why those final almost bloodthirsty moments happened from him. He wasn't calm he wasn't thinking like a Jedi or a member of the Jedi Council, he was angry, outraged and on a adrenal high from the fight.



Stop and consider, if Mace had been truly calm, thinking clearly and was emotionally stable at that moment. Would he have ignored Anakin saying he needed Palpatine alive. Or why Anakin had ignored his orders to stay away. Would he have decided to be judge jury and executioner all in that moment if he was truly acting as a Jedi is supposed to.

Through both Legends and Canon we have example after example of Jedi "Falling" because they became emotional. The Jedi were not raised to be emotionally stable people. They were given a single edict on what and how to think and that any emotion was bad. All out of Fear .. which is what even Yoda admits to post the fall of the order. They were afraid, afraid of emotion, afraid of their own power and afraid of being seen in a bad light.



In many wars that have happened around the world there have been soldiers who have fled the battlefield. Or gone insane during highly emotional fights. Because they were not emotionally prepared to deal with what they were seeing and doing. That lack of emotional stability isn't common in the average population, but it's prevalent in the Jedi Order. Because from birth their taught to fear emotion Fear is the only emotion they are taught, Fear Emotion, Fear Love, Fear Attachment, Fear any Passion or Pride. So it's no wonder why the Jedi must end. It's a cult of fear and ignorance wrapped in a zen like cloak which is supposed to instill confidence from those on the outside looking in.

I'll end my little rant here but I hope if nothing else it gives people a moment to stop and really see the Jedi for what they are beyond the flash and lightsabers.





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Old 12-04-2017, 08:35 PM   #2
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:33 PM   #3
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I don't get the sense that the Jedi teach "fear" of emotion. That would be paradoxical, and would be easily recognized as such. They seem to teach more of a Vulcan-like mastery of emotion, which they may succeed at to varying degrees. I think that such a path is unrealistic, if sentients in the Star Wars universe are like they are here, and so teaching it as if it is not only an ATTAINABLE goal, but one that it is ASSUMED all Jedi WILL attain, is dangerous.

Combat does not HAVE to be an inherently emotional act, and even in our world there are those who teach, with what seems like some justification, that emotional detachment actually can make you a MORE effective combatant. I think it IS evident that Mace Windu does NOT seem very emotionally detached in combat, though. (Nor did Obi-wan when he battled Maul after Qui-gon fell.)

Also, fighting defensively is not really an aggressive act, by definition. Of course I would agree that the Jedi's focus on "knowledge and defense, never attack" doesn't seem to hold up under scrutiny of the actions of individual Jedi.

Mostly I would say that the Jedi had what seemed like an unrealistic philosophy, however admirable it might have sounded, and that their failings stemmed somewhat inevitably from their inability to actually live up to their lofty principles, while failing to acknowledge that they WERE failing to do so. Lofty principles can be a good thing, even when they aren't actually attainable, so long as you are honest about striving for them but not really REACHING them.
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:46 PM   #4
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The Jedi were consumed by fear. Even Yoda admits that ..

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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.




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Old 12-04-2017, 10:00 PM   #5
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Been a while since I saw that episode. How certain are we that was actually Yoda? (Also, whatever that one episode might have said, the Jedi did not otherwise act like or seem to be "consumed by fear", so I take it with a grain of salt.)

EDIT: That was definitely Yoda. I looked it up. As for what he was saying, it sure didn't SEEM like he was saying that teaching fear was the Jedi way. He seemed to be saying that succumbing to fear was what brought the Jedi DOWN, not that such was central to their order. In fact he seems to be implying the opposite, and stating that the Jedi fell BECAUSE of what they had BECOME at the time of the Clone Wars, with the clear implication that that was not what they were SUPPOSED to be.
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:27 PM   #6
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But take everything in context, not just the one scene, which I take as a topper. The Jedi from almost the moment of birth, taught their students that Emotions are bad, Emotions lead to attachments attachments lead to fear of loss which leads to the dark side. Emotion was something to be feared. It's been a point several, now legends, novels and games took on directly. Look at Knights Of The Old Republic for example.

If you play the "Dark Path" in that game how does it start? Falling in love with Bastila or Carth. Again it points directly to the emotionally instability in Jedi. One could argue that Revan by that point in the game wasn't the Jedi Raised being he had been before. I disagree. Jedi use telepathic manipulation on infants in order to both strengthen their connection to the force and to "Guide" them to the light side of the force. The memory wipe the Jedi used on Revan wouldn't have undone that, nor do I believe that Jedi created "Personality" would have allowed the full range on emotional stability as a person would need. Simply because the Jedi creating it would also have to experience said emotions as the memories were implanted. Remember while not said directly it's implied heavily that Revan's mind wipe and new personality were both done purely via force powers not tech.

When it comes to the core of my argument it's about Emotional Stability, sure there seem to be plenty of Jedi who maintained it for the most part. But look at current Canon. Several Jedi were deeply in love with someone, be it another Jedi or someone outside the order. A member of the Jedi High Council Ki-Adi-Mundi had 4 wives, a son and 7 daughters. And the council knew about it and not only did nothing but allowed it openly. Even given the taboos on attachment .. When it comes right down to it the Jedi as a order is so full of contradiction, double talk, and out right lies, the body as a whole needs to be questioned to it's foundation.

Which is where I believe we will find Luke in The Last Jedi movie. I believe he has found out much about the Jedi, their teachings and methods and that then failed him in Kylo Ren, as such he's gone roundabout on himself and what he knows trying to figure out where the Jedi went wrong and how to fix it.




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