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Old 08-10-2017, 04:40 AM   #1
Andrew NDB
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Default Has Baz and Jessica united the Anti-Hal and/or Anti-Kyle fans?



Do people even hate on Kyle or Hal anymore? It seems like both groups within the fandom (both the steadfast Hal fans and the Kyle fans, formerly at war with one another in the 90s and 2000s) have called a truce to hate on Baz and Jessica.

No?
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:03 AM   #2
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I'm now fine with the first four. I always loved Hal, Guy and John. And even Kyle now has grown on me because he has a different personality than the first three.

The last two sh*tbags? They gotz to GO.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:07 PM   #3
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It's probably true. At least when people are asking if anyone should be dropped, Kyle is less likely to be the choice now.

BTW: were there a lot of "anti-Hal" fans? I definitely am familiar with loyal Kyle fans and maybe some of them were leery of Rebirth because they suspected (rightly) Kyle would be sidelined, but in my experience they don't usually hate Hal or think he has to go. They just want more Kyle.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:39 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Space Cop View Post
BTW: were there a lot of "anti-Hal" fans? I definitely am familiar with loyal Kyle fans and maybe some of them were leery of Rebirth because they suspected (rightly) Kyle would be sidelined, but in my experience they don't usually hate Hal or think he has to go. They just want more Kyle.
I want Hal to go... and become Parallax. Real Parallax. Does that count?
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:13 PM   #5
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I want Hal to go... and become Parallax. Real Parallax. Does that count?
I'd say that counts.
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:50 PM   #6
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Honestly, there are just too many at this point. Period. It is just too much to balance. I'm not sure there's any good solution, though.
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Old 08-26-2017, 12:41 AM   #7
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I want Hal to go... and become Parallax. Real Parallax. Does that count?
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Originally Posted by Mister Ed View Post
I'd say that counts.
Indeed. But I think it's the only case of that I'd heard. Take Ionfan, who would be the other most vocal Kyle supporter here. I don't want to put words in his mouth and I'm sure if DC asked him "only Hal or Kyle can exist from now on," he'd pick Kyle; but he also liked Hal in the movie and cartoons.

For my part, I'm Hal all the way, but I'm fine with Kyle sticking around. Gun to my head, three Earth lanterns have to die and he's not making it out alive, but other than that unlikely scenario the big four are fine.
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:36 PM   #8
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I kinda still dislike Hal a little for the same reason I dislike Jess and Baz. His disproportionate association and favoritism by Geoff Johns. If it wasnt for that he probably would be one my top 3 but I prefer Kyle, John and Guy by far. Hal would need to go to some rough times before I can even begin to sympathize with him. Or like Andrew NDB said, go real Parallax again :P
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Old 08-27-2017, 04:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy Dave Targaryen I View Post
I'm now fine with the first four. I always loved Hal, Guy and John. And even Kyle now has grown on me because he has a different personality than the first three.

The last two sh*tbags? They gotz to GO.
Ditto what that guy said. Abruptly. Eaten by the sun. Carried in glory to the Lantern Crypt on Mogo, or wherever the hell it is now. Together. Forever. With Charlie Vicker.
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Old 08-27-2017, 04:10 AM   #10
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For my part, I'm Hal all the way, but I'm fine with Kyle sticking around. Gun to my head, three Earth lanterns have to die and he's not making it out alive, but other than that unlikely scenario the big four are fine.
That's exactly how I feel about them.
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Old 08-29-2017, 04:05 AM   #11
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When I frequent other comic book themed message boards, I rarely see hatred for any particular Lanterns. Some fans think that the ring concept is wacky, but anyone with even the basic knowledge of DC knows how large the GLC is and understands that it's a panoramic story with loads of characters.

When I see criticisms of Baz, it's usually that his origin was uneven or that his costume is weird. Of course, there are fans who don't like the fact that he's Muslim, but that seems to be a small segment.

As for Jessica, she's too new to have garnered a significant amount of haters. Most veteran comic fans don't seem to be well-acquainted with her story, and her fans seem to be mostly teens and kids.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:48 PM   #12
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I'm not really a hater of any Lantern characters, but I definitely don't like how Baz and Cruz have basically forced into the spotlight. Green Lanterns isn't that bad though, so I can't entirely complain.

I've always been a big fan of both Kyle / Hal, so I'm a bit of an odd-duck I suppose, though. Kyle gets a lot of points just because when I started reading Green Lantern, he was the main Green Lantern.
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:53 PM   #13
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I'm not really a hater of any Lantern characters, but I definitely don't like how Baz and Cruz have basically forced into the spotlight.
We can kind see why now. WB/Geoff Johns wanted to get used to the pairing in preparation for them to be the main stars of the "Green Lantern Corps" movie.
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Old 06-06-2018, 07:12 AM   #14
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I think the Kyle Rayner/Hal Jordan animosity is 20 years in the past and hasn't been relevant for over a decade. Personally, I can't recall even seeing a lot of that going on during the Geoff Johns run. I think that was mainly a thing when Hal Jordan was dead and/or Parallax. When I would see people complain about the Johns run, it was mostly Geoff Johns they were complaining about, like his retcons and redundant stories, not necessarily Hal Jordan.

I don't like Baz and Cruz largely because the franchise really, REALLY, REALLY didn't need anymore main characters, and I just don't see any worth in them. From a storytelling point of view, I literally don't even know why they're there. If I wanted to focus more on a female Lantern, I'd just bring Arisia up to the plate (who has been neglected like nobody's business as of late). Sure, she's an alien, but she's a near human looking one, and little girls never had difficulty relating with Starfire or Supergirl. The point is, Green Lantern has all these characters that it can barely contain, and adding even more on top of that doesn't help anything.

From a real world point of view, Geoff Johns can't earn any royalties from Arisia's usage, so she's of a lot less use to him than Jessica Cruz (who Johns conveniently got buddy Ethan Van Sciver to help him create [again, royalties].

I'd be all for that type of thing if it organically helped out the franchise. Sure, earn some extra money! I have no problem with that. But when it doesn't ring true, and it's like, 'earn some extra money at the expense of the franchise', then I'm not for it.

I don't believe either character was created for real, genuine diversity reasons. As a person who is actually genuinely a huge supporter and proponent of good, quality diversity in escapist fiction, I feel I know when it rings hollow, or when it's weaponized, like what we see with Star Wars lately, or when it's just generally disingenuous. I feel these characters are one of those instances, and Geoff Johns never struck me as a man who cares all that much about diversity (and Van Sciver most certainly doesn't), but if it makes his characters look more attractive to executives, sure he'll do it.

It's also interesting to me how the creators of the characters create them--to get that credit of course--but then they have almost nothing to do with them afterward as far as actually building the characters and developing them. Because they don't care! They just care about what they can get out of them.

So, no, I don't like those characters. If others do, that's fine. Good for them. I'm not trying to take that away from them.
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:16 AM   #15
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Let's not forget Jade, a female Earth Lantern that was a legacy character to boot.
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:44 PM   #16
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Kyle doesn't have many ardent defenders any more. By ardent, I mean the people who wanted the whole GLC to remain nuked because they didn't want any competition from Kyle. At one time, there were quite a lot of people like that.

But then Geoff came along and told them that no, Hal was the greatest. And like the good little fanboys they were, they rolled over for him.
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:57 AM   #17
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For me, it was never about "competition" for Kyle as much as I wanted the story to progress forward, not constantly looping back to whatever the status quo was five years ago.

And I never bought into Geoff's Hal-hype. I think this forum is full of record of that.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Blue Lantern View Post
When I see criticisms of Baz, it's usually that his origin was uneven or that his costume is weird.
It looked like a Lanternized version of Kick-Ass' costume.

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Of course, there are fans who don't like the fact that he's Muslim, but that seems to be a small segment.
The only problem I have with him being Muslim is that we NEVER see him practicing his faith. In the recent issue him and Jessica practically admit that they're not practicing their respective faiths. Beyond virtue signalling what's the point of making a Muslim character when he doesn't practice his faith? This is trying to pander to both sides. Make a Muslim character to pander to potential Muslim readers and then proceed show him not practicing it and even state that he's not practicing it to pander to the "OMG!!! I DON'T WANT RELIGION SHOVED DOWN MY THROAT" portion. The only distinct Arabic trait of his is his tattoo.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:45 AM   #19
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For me, it was never about "competition" for Kyle as much as I wanted the story to progress forward, not constantly looping back to whatever the status quo was five years ago.
Yep. Over and over again.
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