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Old 05-06-2011, 11:02 AM   #51
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I still think it's pathetic that so many people are placing all of the blame on Sony for this instead of the actual criminals responsible. Idiots.
It is Sony's fault as they didn't have the proper Firewalls and protection in place. and the lost details of over 12,000 people, and if they are robbed, Sony are liable, and could pay up to 100 million in damages. And that goodwill incentive the put in place is total crap
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:53 PM   #52
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No, it's the hackers' fault. They committed a criminal act, not Sony. Should Sony have better protected themselves? Sure. But that in and of itself is not a crime. Hacking private property and networks most certainly is. That's why the FBI and DHS are involved.
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Old 05-06-2011, 03:57 PM   #53
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No, it's the hackers' fault. They committed a criminal act, not Sony. Should Sony have better protected themselves? Sure. But that in and of itself is not a crime. Hacking private property and networks most certainly is. That's why the FBI and DHS are involved.
taking people's information and stuff like credit card numbers require to have your site tested by the government for encryptioon and all the good protection measures.... sorry thought got derailed
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:05 PM   #54
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I'm with Mac, blame the idiots who caused this rather than Sony.
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:09 PM   #55
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I, Booster Gold, would like to point out that everyone saying that Sony's security was weak are morons.

It took almost 5 years for their systems to be breaches, but it took less than 2 for Microsoft's to breached in a similar fashion. The difference? No fraudulant purchases have occured as a result of the attack on Sony's PSN, while there were many made as a result of the attack on Microsoft's XBL. So who really had the wrose security? And why is that everyone is dogging on Sony now, in 2011, when everyone was ecouraging Microsoft back in 2007? Add to that the fact taht Microsoft gave XBL subscribers a free downloadable game that most didn't even care about, while Sony is giving PSN users a choice from a bunch of (yet announcd) downloadable games, so you can choose what you want, and a free subscription to a premium discount service for a month (not to mention all the other little bonuses for Qriocity memebers and DCUO subscribers)... I would say Sony is dealing with this mess far better than Microsoft could've even imagined... and yet, somehow, their still the bad guys.

Idiocy. Its the only word to describe it.
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:28 PM   #56
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Sony's had a bad rap since around 2005 or so. Microsoft launched an incredibly successful marketing campaign against them, especially in the gaming press.
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:18 PM   #57
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No, it's the hackers' fault. They committed a criminal act, not Sony. Should Sony have better protected themselves? Sure. But that in and of itself is not a crime.
Actually many states have passed laws to this effect and place the blame squarely on the CEO of the company.
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:49 PM   #58
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Which is ridiculous. That's like placing you under arrest if your house gets robbed.
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Old 05-07-2011, 02:24 PM   #59
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Which is ridiculous. That's like placing you under arrest if your house gets robbed.
Actually, it's more akin to suing the owner of a storage company for someone breaking into your storage building. Everytime you give a company sensitive information for payment, you do so with the understanding that they are going to protect that information to the best of their ability.

If reports of Sony not keeping their security up to date are to be believed (proven true), then they did not fulfill their end of the agreement.

And even if they prove untrue, Sony had an obligation to alert potential victims as soon as it was discovered they may have been put at risk. They put their PR concerns above the trust of their users. And for that, they should be liable.

Kind of like if you go on vacation, and someone trips your alarm. The security company comes out and looks around, your front door is open but they aren't sure if anything is taken, so they wait until you come home to let you know that something might have been taken. After all, they didn't want to concern you until they were sure there was a reason to be concerned.

The hacking wasn't their fault, but their obligation to maintain their security to the highest standards, was. As well as their obligation to act in the best interest of the customer, which in this case would of been to let each customer make their own decision about how to proceed to protect themselves.
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:02 AM   #60
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Actually, it's more akin to suing the owner of a storage company for someone breaking into your storage building. Everytime you give a company sensitive information for payment, you do so with the understanding that they are going to protect that information to the best of their ability.

If reports of Sony not keeping their security up to date are to be believed (proven true), then they did not fulfill their end of the agreement.

And even if they prove untrue, Sony had an obligation to alert potential victims as soon as it was discovered they may have been put at risk. They put their PR concerns above the trust of their users. And for that, they should be liable.

Kind of like if you go on vacation, and someone trips your alarm. The security company comes out and looks around, your front door is open but they aren't sure if anything is taken, so they wait until you come home to let you know that something might have been taken. After all, they didn't want to concern you until they were sure there was a reason to be concerned.

The hacking wasn't their fault, but their obligation to maintain their security to the highest standards, was. As well as their obligation to act in the best interest of the customer, which in this case would of been to let each customer make their own decision about how to proceed to protect themselves.
completely agree
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:05 AM   #61
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And even if they prove untrue, Sony had an obligation to alert potential victims as soon as it was discovered they may have been put at risk. They put their PR concerns above the trust of their users.
There's no proof of this whatsoever. And as I stated before, letting users know within a week is pretty damned fast.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:18 AM   #62
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There's no proof of this whatsoever. And as I stated before, letting users know within a week is pretty damned fast.
No proof? Sony issued a statement that flat out said that they didn't tell users of potential exposure because they "didn't want to panic anyone".

That's pretty damning evidence of putting their PR concerns above the concerns for the health of their users identities.

I'm glad you think sitting on that information for a week is "fast". But when it comes to my livelihood and financial well being, any hesitancy is too much.

If you want a good example of how a company should handle a security breach was the late April hacking of Epsilon, which is linked to Best Buys customer records. On April 22nd, a security breach was discovered and it was unknown how much information had been lifted, if any, on April 22nd, I received an email from Best Buy/Epsilon warning me of possible card theft/phishing attempts that might arise from said breach. As well as what I should beware of and how to protect myself.


EDIT: sorry, their exact words were that they delayed notice because they didnt want to "lead [Sony's customers] to take unnecessary actions if the information was not fully corroborated by forensic evidence."

http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/playst...14115917309058
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:07 AM   #63
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No proof? Sony issued a statement that flat out said that they didn't tell users of potential exposure because they "didn't want to panic anyone".

That's pretty damning evidence of putting their PR concerns above the concerns for the health of their users identities.

I'm glad you think sitting on that information for a week is "fast". But when it comes to my livelihood and financial well being, any hesitancy is too much.

If you want a good example of how a company should handle a security breach was the late April hacking of Epsilon, which is linked to Best Buys customer records. On April 22nd, a security breach was discovered and it was unknown how much information had been lifted, if any, on April 22nd, I received an email from Best Buy/Epsilon warning me of possible card theft/phishing attempts that might arise from said breach. As well as what I should beware of and how to protect myself.


EDIT: sorry, their exact words were that they delayed notice because they didnt want to "lead [Sony's customers] to take unnecessary actions if the information was not fully corroborated by forensic evidence."

http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/playst...14115917309058
Thanks for doing the legwork, and cosigned.
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:36 AM   #64
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Just a heads up from the retail side of things. Since this started, I have not sold a single PS3/PSP game, system, or card.


I have, on the other hand, sold lots of 360 and Wii/DS stuff.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:15 AM   #65
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Funny since I, Booster Gold, have purchased four offline based PS3 games since this started (granted I returned one that gave me a headache). I've bought Dragon Age, Dragon Age II, and Final Fantasy XIII... the one I bought and returned was The King of Fighters XII (something about the classic animation style and my 50" screen created a perfect storm of visual irritance, I think).
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:59 AM   #66
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I have bought a bunch of computer games.. and am very upset I cant co-op portal 2 with my roommate.. Oh well.. back to Eve, Mass Effect (I and II), Fallout: New Vegas, Battlefield Bad Company 2.
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:47 PM   #67
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I'd be interested to see how this affected XBL subscriptions.
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:58 PM   #68
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EDIT: sorry, their exact words were that they delayed notice because they didnt want to "lead [Sony's customers] to take unnecessary actions if the information was not fully corroborated by forensic evidence."

http://www.gamesradar.com/ps3/playst...14115917309058
Exactly. There wasn't any proof yet, and if they jumped the gun and were proven wrong, that would've gotten them in more legal trouble. SOP for computer forensics, and forensics in general.

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I'd be interested to see how this affected XBL subscriptions.
Probably not much. Even superanalyst Michael Pachter claimed this would hardly affect Sony's install base, and he's usually right on the money. (Which is why he's paid so much of it.) Though I'm sure MS is conducting a thorough review of their own security practices.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:13 PM   #69
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Exactly. There wasn't any proof yet, and if they jumped the gun and were proven wrong, that would've gotten them in more legal trouble. SOP for computer forensics, and forensics in general.
More legal trouble for warning customers for potential risk? Bullshit. Precedent for that claim?

In the Epsilon example I cited, it turned out the credit information was mostly safe, and there hasn't been any legal backlash for their warning people without knowing for sure if their information was at risk.

The attacks began on April 19th, the plug was pulled on the 20th specifically because customer databases had been accessed. And yet it was a week before Sony came clean about it.

The timeline Sony submitted to congress is pretty clear about what was suspected and what wasn't, when it was suspected, and that it was the reason the plug was pulled in the first place.

It was a PR ploy to keep Sony looking good. Which is why their stance on user information changed over the course of that week, until they finally had to admit the truth. (In the beginning they flat out denied that customer service records were accessed, and now they claim they weren't sure, but in the timeline submitted to congress it states that they pulled the plug when it became known those databases were accessed.)

Watch the timeline close enough and you can clearly see Sony covering their asses over the concerns of keeping customers informed of being at risk.

FYI I made a mistake, the Epsilon hack was March 30th, not April 20th. But the correspondence was within 24 hours of ID'ing the breach. Brest Buy wasn't alone in speedily notifying customers this is a list of companies who made swift notifications: Best Buy, Capital One, JPMorgan, Citibank, Kroger, Barclays Bank of Delware, Visa, American Express, US Bank, TiVo Inc. and Walgreen Co, Robert Half, Kraft, Home Shopping Network, QFC, Marriott Rewards, Ritz-Carlton Rewards, Ameriprise Financial, LL Bean Visa Card, Brookstone, Dillons, the College Board, McKinsey & Company, New York & Company, Disney Vacations, Staples, TIAA-CREF, Verizon, Borders, Smith Brands, Abe Books, Lacoste.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:35 PM   #70
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I refer back to my earlier statements about the HMO and the bank. Those took months to inform customers of the data loss, and the data itself contained much more private and serious information (like SS numbers). 6-7 days is still incredibly fast, any way you want to spin it. Did Sony make mistakes? Of course. But they're completely undeserving of the insane amounts of hatred being flung their way, when it was the hackers that truly deserve folks' wrath. There's a double standard at work here, and it's been that way for a while when it comes to Sony.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:40 PM   #71
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This is the first that, I, Booster Gold, am even hearing about this Epsilon/Best Buy thing and I'e had a Best Buy Credit Card (and Rewards cards) for well over four years now... sounds like they dropped the ball to me. You've actually made me feel less secure about THAT with all your talk about it. I think I might cancel may Best Buy card, now, if only because I was never notified of such a breach.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:44 PM   #72
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This is the first that, I, Booster Gold, am even hearing about this Epsilon/Best Buy thing and I'e had a Best Buy Credit Card (and Rewards cards) for well over four years now... sounds like they dropped the ball to me. You've actually made me feel less secure about THAT with all your talk about it. I think I might cancel may Best Buy card, now, if only because I was never notified of such a breach.
Do you purchase online through their website? If not, then you weren't affected. The Best Buy card is handled through HSBC Bank Nevada, which wasn't affected. However, because I use my Reward Zone Mastercard through Best Buy's online cart...I was affected. However, there were a pretty long list of companies who did use Epsilon, so you never know.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:49 PM   #73
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Oh, okay... I, Booster Gold, will usually check their site to see their prices, but I never actually buy stuff from it.
I always go into the store, grab what I checked on, then browse around for other stuff. Thanks for the info.

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Old 05-09-2011, 03:49 PM   #74
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But they're completely undeserving of the insane amounts of hatred being flung their way, when it was the hackers that truly deserve folks' wrath. There's a double standard at work here, and it's been that way for a while when it comes to Sony.
I dunno Mac, the problem is that this isn't the first time Sony has been less then forthcoming with service problems on their end. This is just the most serious case of Sony being less then communicative about the cause and effect of service interruption. And less then a year after the ApocalyPS3 debacle. Granted they fixed that issue pretty fast, they were still pretty tight lipped about the clock issue that caused it.

I don't think they've earned any leniency from users, because they're notoriously silent about their service failures, and this was one time, they needed to be upfront and open. If a consumer wants a company to change policy, they don't get it by being silent and not being critical. Ya' know?
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:53 PM   #75
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I, Booster Gold, would like to point out that the ApocalyPS3 happened last March (making it over a year ago), and that it only effected older "Fat" PS3's... but that was different... it wasn't a hack attack. AS for being silent about the failures until they know exactly what is wrong and how to address... well... thats just a Japanese trait.
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