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Old 03-20-2014, 05:28 AM   #26
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All of you wish away my beloved spectrum, and I curse you. THINNNEEEER!

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Old 03-20-2014, 12:29 PM   #27
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The spectrum's gotta go. It's a cancer on the GL franchise.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:55 PM   #28
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I said that two years ago on the DC and CBR boards, and got trolled insanely. Just like I got trolled when I said that Hal and the Corps should come back, and when i said it was time for Geoff to move on.

You would think that people who have been so wrong about this so many times would learn some humility and shut the fuck up and listen to someone who's been right about it so many times. But noooooooo!

The problem here is that you can't make cheerleaders believe that their team is screwing up. And that's who you're talking to on most message boards. You're not talking to the thousands of people who are dropping the Red Lanterns every month and are not bothering to go to a message board and talk about it.

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Old 03-20-2014, 08:04 PM   #29
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Exactly. I thought Geoff Johns' ideas were a mistake from Rebirth on, but I was loudly shouted down. He's done some good stuff, but he's done far more damage.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:09 PM   #30
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I think you could maybe put the whole emotional spectrum in one comic and see how it works there, rather than building the whole franchise around it. I suggested that, and of course I got shouted down.

Really, there ought to be some kind of penalty that these "fans" should pay for being so wrong so many times, and for being such jerks in the process. At least they could pay it in terms of their conduct and their overconfidence.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:40 PM   #31
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If comic fans actually paid for their hubris, then we'd have had nothing but great comics for decades, and reboots would not be necessary.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:46 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Spy Smasher View Post
I think you could maybe put the whole emotional spectrum in one comic and see how it works there, rather than building the whole franchise around it. I suggested that, and of course I got shouted down.

Really, there ought to be some kind of penalty that these "fans" should pay for being so wrong so many times, and for being such jerks in the process. At least they could pay it in terms of their conduct and their overconfidence.
I would think the penalty would be in the quality of the comics themselves, wouldn't it? And if they ARE enjoying the comics, then really it is hard to say they were "wrong" isn't it?
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:51 PM   #33
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I would think the penalty would be in the quality of the comics themselves, wouldn't it? And if they ARE enjoying the comics, then really it is hard to say they were "wrong" isn't it?
They won't say they're wrong until the comics are canceled. But hell, they won't even say it then. How many of them have said they were wrong to fight so hard to keep Hal and the Corps gone for so long? All they do there uis change the subject.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:09 PM   #34
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They won't say they're wrong until the comics are canceled. But hell, they won't even say it then. How many of them have said they were wrong to fight so hard to keep Hal and the Corps gone for so long? All they do there uis change the subject.
But "wrong" in what sense? If they were enjoying the comics without Hal and the Corps, in what sense were they wrong to want it to stay that way? Wrong for what you wanted, perhaps. Wrong for what I wanted (especially as concerns the Corps- much as I am glad Hal is back, I was fine with him being gone, too, especially after the character was so badly damaged). But to expect them to "admit" they were wrong about something if they WERE enjoying the comics sans Hal and Corps is absurd. Of course they wouldn't admit that, because they have nothing to admit in that case.

Or are you somehow forwarding the notion that anybody that likes the comics in any form other than whatever formula would sell the most copies is just wrong about their personal preferences? Because that strikes me as rather a silly view. People like what they like. If what they like doesn't sell, then I guess that kind of stinks for them in the long run, but that doesn't mean they "should" like the stuff that will sell.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:13 PM   #35
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You can like something, but if it doesn't sell, and if it keeps other people from reading what they want to see, then how exactly are you "right?"

The fact is that most people whio go to message boards are cheerleaders who will vehemently support whatever the comics companies do. That's just stupid. And yes, it's wrong.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:19 PM   #36
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Well, if you are asserting that they are being dishonest about what they enjoy, then in that case (if that IS the case) I agree with you. But if they honestly like it, then no, I think you are being somewhat arrogant to brand their preferences as "wrong".

Ultimately the people who like what you consider to be the "wrong" things, aren't responsible for what is in the comic, unless they are writing it. And if their preferences are really so marginal that catering to them kills sales, then it is up to DC to cater to different preferences, isn't it? Not for the readers to CHANGE WHAT THEY LIKE. That's such an absurd notion that I can't help laughing at it. These readers liking the "wrong" things are not keeping anybody else from reading what they want to see, the folks making the comics are doing that.

Besides, if these people will really support whatever the comics companies do, then they cannot, by definition, be "the problem", since if that's really true, then they would ALSO support everything you dream of doing with the comic so long as the comic companies did it. The problem then, obviously, is not the readers, but the company.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:37 PM   #37
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Let me make this clear, if I haven't already. I thought I had. I'm talking about people who will like and support whatever the comics companies do. Now, if the comics companies suddenly realize they've been wrong, and turn around and do what, for example, I want -- such as in bringing back Hal and the Corps -- then suddenly those fans in totally favor of it too, and there's no acknowledgement that they and the comics companies were ever wrong about it. It's just the same old arrogance. To most message board posters, the comics companies, like Comrade Napoleon, are always right.

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Old 03-20-2014, 09:44 PM   #38
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gonna get all the issues now so i can say i have it in my collection. So happy its done. Sinestro looks good though. Glad its replacing it. RL and NG idk if they should continue. RL i kinda like though
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:51 PM   #39
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I said on the CBR boards that making Guy a Red Lantern was a colossally dumb-assed idea, and the great majority of posters flamed me for saying it. Well, I'm going to turn out to be right there, and what are the people who flamed me going to say? They won't say anything. They'll change the subject. And they'll go right on thinking that they have a clue, even though once again Comrade Napoleon was wrong.
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:52 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spy Smasher View Post
Let me make this clear, if I haven't already. I'm talking about people who will like and support whatever the comics companies do. Now, if the comics companies suddenly realize they've been wrong, and turn around and do what I want -- such as in bringing back Hal and the Corps -- then suddenly those fans in favor of it too, and there's no acknowledgement that they and the comics companies were ever wrong about it. It's just the same old arrogance. The comics companies, like Comrade Napoleon, are always right.
Well, certainly I can get behind criticizing people that develop selective amnesia about what they have said in the past. And, like I said, I'm all for criticizing people if they are claiming preferences that they don't truly have just to go along with the crowd.

But if somebody actually liked comics without Hal and the Corps, then find that they like comics WITH Hal and the Corps, that doesn't make their old preference "wrong". People CAN change their minds about what they like, without somehow having to "admit" that what they liked before was "wrong".
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Old 03-20-2014, 09:52 PM   #41
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...It's just the same old arrogance. To most message board posters, the comics companies, like Comrade Napoleon, are always right.
Well we must be the exception then because GLCMb has a reputation of being filled with nay sayers. Newbies mention it pretty frequently---that most posters seem unhappy with the current comics.

I haven't been on the DC boards since I joined here and never belonged to another comic mb, so I can't speak on those.
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:00 AM   #42
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Well we must be the exception then because GLCMb has a reputation of being filled with nay sayers. Newbies mention it pretty frequently---that most posters seem unhappy with the current comics.

I haven't been on the DC boards since I joined here and never belonged to another comic mb, so I can't speak on those.
You're right. This place is an exception. People here can like a comic without being just flat-out stupid about supporting it when the writer or the editor screws up.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:10 AM   #43
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But at the same time...a lot of the people here were salivating over Johns' work until very recently.
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:20 AM   #44
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But at the same time...a lot of the people here were salivating over Johns' work until very recently.
And...?

Perhaps they liked it? Once again I'm hearing what sounds like the idea that people are liking the "wrong" thing. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:57 AM   #45
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Well I didn't suddenly stop liking the parts of Johns' GL run that I previously liked. He just started writing stories that I didn't like. I can go back and reread from Rebirth until around GL #40 and still gush about how much I love that part of his run. Some things the guy did are still and will probably always be dipped in gold for me.

It was Johns' writing that changed, not me.
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:58 AM   #46
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But...(to stay on topic)...

I think we can ALL agree that Larfleeze getting cancelled is a good thing for GL fans. Good riddance.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:08 AM   #47
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Johns gets WAY more hate than he deserves. He did more damage than good? Idk about all that.

And you guys just have to accept the fact that the emotional spectrum will always be around. There is no way DC is ever going to get rid of them. And honestly, outside of these boards I hardly ever hear people complain about them. Same goes with Geoff's writing on GL. I mean I'll agree that towards the end of his run the stories weren't as great but it certainly wasn't as bad as some of you make them out to be.
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:11 PM   #48
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I said that two years ago on the DC and CBR boards, and got trolled insanely. Just like I got trolled when I said that Hal and the Corps should come back, and when i said it was time for Geoff to move on.

You would think that people who have been so wrong about this so many times would learn some humility and shut the fuck up and listen to someone who's been right about it so many times. But noooooooo!

The problem here is that you can't make cheerleaders believe that their team is screwing up. And that's who you're talking to on most message boards. You're not talking to the thousands of people who are dropping the Red Lanterns every month and are not bothering to go to a message board and talk about it.
"Wrong/Right" are always subjective when it comes to the types of entertainment people enjoy. There are always going to be voices of dissent, even for the most loved/hated movies/books/music.

As for Johns moving on, the jury is still out. However, the sales have suffered and from what I've read so far (admittedly, I'm behind due to my style of reading) the post-Johns Lanternverse is a mixed bag.

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But...(to stay on topic)...

I think we can ALL agree that Larfleeze getting cancelled is a good thing for GL fans. Good riddance.
I'll agree in part. If DC wants to give a newly-popular character a spotlight, I don't see why they don't give that character a 4-6 issue mini-series. Larf would have been fine with that kind of arc, but it's obvious that too few people wanted to read "The NeverEnding Greed Story".

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Johns gets WAY more hate than he deserves. He did more damage than good? Idk about all that.

And you guys just have to accept the fact that the emotional spectrum will always be around. There is no way DC is ever going to get rid of them. And honestly, outside of these boards I hardly ever hear people complain about them. Same goes with Geoff's writing on GL. I mean I'll agree that towards the end of his run the stories weren't as great but it certainly wasn't as bad as some of you make them out to be.
I don't know about "always", but it still has countless possibilities not yet explored.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:22 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by CeltiC5-27 View Post
Johns gets WAY more hate than he deserves. He did more damage than good? Idk about all that.

And you guys just have to accept the fact that the emotional spectrum will always be around. There is no way DC is ever going to get rid of them. And honestly, outside of these boards I hardly ever hear people complain about them. Same goes with Geoff's writing on GL. I mean I'll agree that towards the end of his run the stories weren't as great but it certainly wasn't as bad as some of you make them out to be.
See, this is what I object to. People proclaiming with complete confidence that you "hate Geoff Johns" because you think that he went south after the Sinestro Corps War. That judgmental mind-reading is just ridiculous, and it's what causes ill will and flame wars.

Did he do more damage than good? So far, no. But if this all ends up with just Green Lantern and the GLC still afloat, and with a GL movie to his credit that was so bad that another one won't get made, then he's not going to leave the enormous legacy that people were once so confident that he would.

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Old 03-22-2014, 12:46 AM   #50
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But if this all ends up with just Green Lantern and the GLC still afloat, and with a GL movie to his credit that was so bad that another one won't get made, then he's not going to leave the enormous legacy that people were once so confident that he would.
This scenario seems to me to be inevitable.
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