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Old 07-25-2020, 02:47 PM   #26
Trey Strain
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Dan DiDio is gone, and I think he was the one who was pushing "everything but white males" on small kids, which was a complete waste of resources. Such things might get rethought now, especially as they cause the further enriching of Johns.
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Old 07-25-2020, 03:02 PM   #27
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Dan DiDio is gone, and I think he was the one who was pushing "everything but white males" on small kids, which was a complete waste of resources. Such things might get rethought now, especially as they cause the further enriching of Johns.
When Guy is making regular appearances in a book again I'll believe it. The collapse of sales hasn't made Marvel re think that strategy so I doubt DC will either.
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Old 07-25-2020, 05:37 PM   #28
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I'm still looking forward to a time when John's grubby fingerprints aren't still visibly all over the GL franchise.
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:43 PM   #29
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I'm still looking forward to a time when John's grubby fingerprints aren't still visibly all over the GL franchise.
That would take a colossal universal reboot for that to happen.

Anybody know what the douche has been up to besides not making his deadlines or being able to fuck up the GLC with his movie script?
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Old 07-26-2020, 01:38 AM   #30
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His Three Jokers starts this month. Or maybe it's out already. I wouldn't know. Ever since UCS took over from Diamond, I haven't received a single shipment.
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Old 07-27-2020, 03:31 AM   #31
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She's not going anywhere. She's a pivotal face in the DC Girls show and merchandise line. Being partially created by EVS wasn't enough of the woke brigade at DC to erase her so nothing Johns can do will have her erased.
The XM statue is a good indicator that she's resonating with adults as well as kids. It carries a $600 price tag, so there had to be some solid market research that it was going to sell before putting out such a premium piece.

Moreover, even if there is something particularly egregious to Ray Fisher's accusations (and I highly doubt much heat comes GJ's way), that doesn't mean that DC would shed his characters/concepts with GL. Despite her dubious beginning, Arisia is still around 39 years later after her creation. If that's the case, issues like EVS's Comicsgate comments and the conditions on the set of the JL movies aren't going to cause DC to cut ties with narrative elements that will still make money for the company.
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Old 08-24-2020, 05:00 AM   #32
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It looks like this isn't just being dismissed as personality conflicts. WB is investigating Whedon, Johns, and Berg.

http://https://uproxx.com/movies/justice-league-investigation-joss-whedon-geoff-johns-ray-fisher/
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Old 08-24-2020, 07:18 AM   #33
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It looks like this isn't just being dismissed as personality conflicts. WB is investigating Whedon, Johns, and Berg.

http://https://uproxx.com/movies/justice-league-investigation-joss-whedon-geoff-johns-ray-fisher/
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:08 PM   #34
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Well, Johns ain't got no more power to abuse, does he? Except maybe he could abuse that GLC script that he was "promoted" to write.

If you haven't done so, you need to go to the Videos forum and watch A Face in the Crowd. That same story plays out again and again and again, and people get blindsided every time.

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Old 08-24-2020, 05:10 PM   #35
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Dan DiDio is gone, and I think he was the one who was pushing "everything but white males" on small kids, which was a complete waste of resources. Such things might get rethought now, especially as they cause the further enriching of Johns.
I kind of feel like it will be a waste of my time and brain power to even say this, but...

Let's be realistic here. Is that even going on? The character DC invests the most in, by far, is Batman...who has another movie on the way. There's been a Shazam! film, Robin is the leader of the Titans, who have two animated series and a live action show. Flash has a CW show and if you look at the comics, the lead characters slots are bursting with white males...if I actually listed them, it would be a loooong list.

I'm just not seeing the shortage of white male representation over there. I can see it being a bummer if a particular white male character you like is being passed over for a character representing a different gender and ethnicity, but I wouldn't make big blanket statements about the company over that particular instance.

But, anyway, considering a black woman (Pam Lifford) is calling the shots over at DC now, I don't believe the company will back off of diversity, especially having seen some recent announcements, like putting two women in charge, wanting to focus less on the direct market (thus find new audiences), and bringing back Milestone Comics.

About Geoff Johns...
Well, considering all the heads that have been rolling at DC lately, I kind of won't be surprised if something happens to him at this point. I know this particular incident isn't related to what happened to the other figureheads at DC, but...I don't know, I guess it's kind of a karma thing. Seems like maybe all of those dudes' time has finally come.
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Old 08-24-2020, 07:02 PM   #36
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My point about white males is that by and large, they're the ones who buy comics, and there's no evidence at all that this will change. Yet for a long time, DiDio and others have been chasing other demographics who will allegedly rush in and buy comics, if only the companies push straight white male characters aside in favor of characters who those other demographics can better relate to.

They gave that approach a long hard push, despite having no market data that it would pay off, and it didn't. Now if this is about DC signaling its virtue, and maybe it is, then that's a different matter. But there is no new demographic that will rush into the comics shops, and if DC or Marvel says there is, then they need to produce some evidence of that.

You have to spend your marketing money where market research says it will get a return, or explain to your investors why you don't. The comics market is dominated by older white males, so it seems to make sense to invest their dollars in marketing mainly to younger white males -- even if that doesn't signal the companies' virtue.

I suspect that DiDio wanted to nuke the DCU and pretty much purge the straight white males. I don't know that, but I think it's likely. And someone said no.

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Old 08-25-2020, 01:56 AM   #37
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One thing I always find kinda' interesting is that everyone seems to think they're under attack. The black people think they're under attack, the white people think they're under attack, the dogs think they're under attack...and so on and so forth.

Let's not pretend that DC Comics was making decent money. Thus the demographic it had (has) isn't good enough, and hasn't been for a long time. No one is going to rush to comic book shops to buy anything because not enough people of any color rush to comic book shops these days, so approaching things from that premise is wrong headed, I think. I think it's wise of DC to explore other options.

I'm also not of the mind that DiDio pushed any diversity agenda long and hard. If he did, I didn't see it. DiDio kept things the way they were for a long time. Same heroes were the same heroes. Superman was always white, Batman was always white, Wonder Woman was always white, Flash was always white, Aquaman was always white, Green Lantern was always white. I didn't notice a long and hard push for anyone else.

I mean, really think about this. Imagine if Chiqiuta Banana said we are ONLY going to go after 12 year old white boys. How silly would that be?

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Old 08-25-2020, 03:27 AM   #38
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...I'm also not of the mind that DiDio pushed any diversity agenda long and hard. If he did, I didn't see it. DiDio kept things the way they were for a long time. Same heroes were the same heroes. Superman was always white, Batman was always white, Wonder Woman was always white, Flash was always white, Aquaman was always white, Green Lantern was always white. I didn't notice a long and hard push for anyone else...
Not all true. Wally became black for quite a while. Alan became gay. Harley and (sometimes) Selina were made bi. Hal stayed the same (though a slight retcon that doesn’t seem to have been widely used sees him half Jewish now), but Kyle was retconned as Hispanic and a Muslim and Hispanic woman were added to an already crowded list of Earth GLs. [And that's not even counting what DC was planning with 5G.] Not saying these were all failures or even bad calls (and, of course, there are a ton of retcons that aren't remotely pandering), but they’re there.
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Old 08-25-2020, 05:15 AM   #39
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About Geoff Johns...
Well, considering all the heads that have been rolling at DC lately, I kind of won't be surprised if something happens to him at this point. I know this particular incident isn't related to what happened to the other figureheads at DC, but...I don't know, I guess it's kind of a karma thing. Seems like maybe all of those dudes' time has finally come.
I'm not even going to speculate on what happened, but if Geoff is disciplined in some way, it wouldn't surprise me if that leads to a delay in the HBO Max series.
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Old 08-25-2020, 12:41 PM   #40
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I'm not even going to speculate on what happened, but if Geoff is disciplined in some way, it wouldn't surprise me if that leads to a delay in the HBO Max series.
I know this is OT, but what a wacky time where wanting to follow all of a franchise means needing all these services. Iím not caught up on Star Wars because I donít have Disney+. Iíd like to see the Karate Kid extension, but I donít do Youtube Red. I canít watch all of Star Trek anymore because I donít spend the money on CBS Access. [Admittedly, some of these donít really bother me.] And now, the one property I always thought Iíd keep up to date with (GL), I wonít because Iím not spending anymore money on monthly services (i.e. HBO Max) than I already do.
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Old 08-25-2020, 02:01 PM   #41
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Iíd like to see the Karate Kid extension, but I donít do Youtube Red.
If you have Netflix, that one's coming this Friday.
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Old 08-25-2020, 02:29 PM   #42
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If you have Netflix, that one's coming this Friday.
I do. Cool.
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:28 AM   #43
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I don't know what else DC could do to Johns, besides take him off the Three Jokers story. It was my understanding that he was writing the GLC script on spec (that is, without pay until they approve it), but I could have been wrong about that.
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:38 AM   #44
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Look, I get why DiDio was tired of his existing customers -- those old farts who dominate most message boards. I'm tired of them too. But you can't just blow off your customers and chase entirely new ones, without having a damned good idea that it's going to work.

DiDio simply took the "publish it and they will come" approach. And they didn't come. Only a very peculiar demographic is going to make special trips to specialty shops to pay four dollars a pop for funny books.

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Old 08-26-2020, 09:20 AM   #45
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I know this is OT, but what a wacky time where wanting to follow all of a franchise means needing all these services. Iím not caught up on Star Wars because I donít have Disney+. Iíd like to see the Karate Kid extension, but I donít do Youtube Red. I canít watch all of Star Trek anymore because I donít spend the money on CBS Access. [Admittedly, some of these donít really bother me.] And now, the one property I always thought Iíd keep up to date with (GL), I wonít because Iím not spending anymore money on monthly services (i.e. HBO Max) than I already do.
I understand this sentiment. Even for properties that I like, I can wait to purchase them on Blu-Ray rather than buy an entirely new service. If it weren't for the GLC series, I wouldn't be getting HBO Max when the time comes. I can always watch Titans and Doom Patrol later on since they're migrating there.

I'm also noticing on Twitter than many Green Lantern fans are feeling disgruntled. The comic industry had a stellar year in 2019, and we were hopeful that GL would finally get the spotlight back. Then the pandemic hit, combined with the AT&T-Time Warner merger, and now uncertainty reigns. The complete absence of GL at Fandome has many fans feeling like we're being set-up for heartbreak, like so many times before, when it comes to GL being adapted outside of the comics. On top of that, there wasn't even a simple announcement of the post-Morrison GL comic future at Fandome.
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Old 08-27-2020, 03:39 PM   #46
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Not all true. Wally became black for quite a while. Alan became gay. Harley and (sometimes) Selina were made bi. Hal stayed the same (though a slight retcon that doesnít seem to have been widely used sees him half Jewish now), but Kyle was retconned as Hispanic and a Muslim and Hispanic woman were added to an already crowded list of Earth GLs. [And that's not even counting what DC was planning with 5G.] Not saying these were all failures or even bad calls (and, of course, there are a ton of retcons that aren't remotely pandering), but theyíre there.
Aside from Harley Quinn and Catwoman, I wouldn't say any of the characters you mentioned were strongly pushed by Dan DiDio, except for Hal Jordan, who I do not consider a "diverse" character. Basically, I think the instances you mention are pussyfooting and not really the actions of someone who is strongly pushing diversity.

I am not saying there was no diversity in DC during Dan DiDio's leadership, but I would not call most of the instances you mention to be long and hard pushes by someone pushing diversity. But if those are the standards, I think they're abysmal.

For example, if the idea is that diversity is being strongly pushed because an alternate universe counterpart character who is infrequently used in stories--and basically never used in solo stories (unlike many of the straight heroes)--is turned gay, then I personally disagree with that notion.

Conversely, in my mind, people who strongly push for diversity make things like Nella the Princess Knight, Gullah Gullah Island, and The Puzzle Place. They don't turn in half efforts like Cyborg on the Justice League, creating "ethnic" GL's to play subordinates to the white one, racebending a character and using diversity as weapon in order to spite that character's fans, trying to kill arguably the company's most popular black and even diverse character just because they don't like him, and so on.

But hey, we all have our own perspectives.
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Old 08-27-2020, 04:00 PM   #47
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Aside from Harley Quinn and Catwoman, I wouldn't say any of the characters you mentioned were strongly pushed by Dan DiDio ...

But hey, we all have our own perspectives.
Meh, I don't think we're disagreeing that much. I was just addressing that part that all the characters were all the same during DiDio's run. I'm not by any means arguing that DiDio was some kind of champion of diversity.
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Old 08-29-2020, 01:32 PM   #48
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My point about white males is that by and large, they're the ones who buy comics, and there's no evidence at all that this will change. Yet for a long time, DiDio and others have been chasing other demographics who will allegedly rush in and buy comics, if only the companies push straight white male characters aside in favor of characters who those other demographics can better relate to.

They gave that approach a long hard push, despite having no market data that it would pay off, and it didn't. Now if this is about DC signaling its virtue, and maybe it is, then that's a different matter. But there is no new demographic that will rush into the comics shops, and if DC or Marvel says there is, then they need to produce some evidence of that.

You have to spend your marketing money where market research says it will get a return, or explain to your investors why you don't. The comics market is dominated by older white males, so it seems to make sense to invest their dollars in marketing mainly to younger white males -- even if that doesn't signal the companies' virtue.

I suspect that DiDio wanted to nuke the DCU and pretty much purge the straight white males. I don't know that, but I think it's likely. And someone said no.
The problem with their diversity push, as far as trying to get girls and People of Color to buy comics. They already had them. My old comic dealer always used to tell how these companies were trying to get these, but they were already buying. They would buy Spider-man, Superman, Batman, Capt. America and X-Men. Not the ones they expected them to buy.
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Old 08-29-2020, 01:36 PM   #49
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The XM statue is a good indicator that she's resonating with adults as well as kids. It carries a $600 price tag, so there had to be some solid market research that it was going to sell before putting out such a premium piece.
I like Jessica so I have no problem with her sticking around [I just wish it wasn't at Guy's or Kyle's expense] Her background of having anxiety and overcoming it makes her relatable. So I'm not surprised at the premium merchandise [plus I'm sure alot of adults watch Dc Girls. I mean Bronys for God sake]
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Old 08-29-2020, 04:08 PM   #50
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DC publishes only a limited number of comics pages per month. Every time the company introduces a new Earth Lantern, or a new replacement character, or a new legacy character, the existing characters have to appear in fewer and fewer pages.

It's been a zero-sum game for a long time, and the current implosion has made the problem much worse.

Where are you going to publish stories about Jessica Cruz? And which character's pages will you reduce, so can add her pages?

This is a matter of squeezing fifty pounds of shit into a five-pound bag, so you can pay royalties to Geoff Johns.
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