Great article on Newsarama about fans sense of ownership

[JuanMal]

good read

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/insi...ip-111102.html

[myuserid]

Comic fans are so weird.

[Mister Ed]

Originally Posted by myuserid

Comic fans are so weird.

I know I am.

Though, for myself, I don't feel like I've even thought I owned characters in some sense. What I own are my PREFERENCES about characters. So I would never say that the creators CAN'T do whatever they want with the characters. I'd just say I HATED the things they did. (Though, to be honest, there are only a few instances where I disliked the direction enough to drop the book.)

I don't think complaining about what they do sometimes implies that one feels ownership of the character. If something is created as a form of entertainment, I fail to see how it is at all abmormal to complain when it stops being entertaining.

But I do agree with the obvious point that it makes no sense to expect anything to CHANGE through complaints alone if the book is selling well. Obviously if you hate the direction, the most convincing way of saying that is by not buying it. Verbalizing your reasons for not buying it (assuming you do so in a way that the creators are likely to see it) can help IF it is coupled with a sales drop, I'm sure (and IF your reasons align with many OTHER'S reasons). But if sales are up? Why would they listen to words over sales?

That's not to say people shouldn't complain if they are still buying the book. Just that you shouldn't EXPECT change if everybody goes that route.

[SD80MAC]

If only this article was around during the H.E.A.T. era.

[Mister Ed]

Originally Posted by SD80MAC

If only this article was around during the H.E.A.T. era.

Right. Because nobody was saying anything similar to this back then.

This article kind of belabors the obvious, in my opinion. Maybe I'm overly optimistic about what is obvious?

[SD80MAC]

Perhaps. But most people are not.

[Evergreen City]

Science fiction, comicdom, television, anime, and popular culture in general are not all that different. I'm old enough to have been part of the letter-writing campaign when Classic Star Trek was cancelled after just two seasons. NBC thought they could kill the franchise. Ha. That was 1968. It was only the beginning. Not even the end of the beginning.

Long live -- so very glad you're back.

Long live -- wherever he is now.

[IonFan]

well we are the ones that buy them every month so why shouldn't we have a say in what happens

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by IonFan

well we are the ones that buy them every month so why shouldn't we have a say in what happens

Because you don't own them. It's that simple.

[myuserid]

Originally Posted by IonFan

well we are the ones that buy them every month so why shouldn't we have a say in what happens

Do you help your favorite bands write their songs?

[Lantern A-train]

Originally Posted by IonFan

well we are the ones that buy them every month so why shouldn't we have a say in what happens

Cause when fans have a say in what happens you get things like Spidey 3

[Mister.Weirdo]

Um I pretty positive that was the decision of the studio, not us fans.

[Lantern A-train]

Based on tons of fans clamoring for Venom.

[Mister.Weirdo]

Yes but the studio made the final results (they could have easily have ignored the fans). Plus not everyone was up to the idea of have Spiderman 3 featuring Venom.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by IonFan

well we are the ones that buy them every month so why shouldn't we have a say in what happens

You do have a say. If you stop liking what's happening, you can stop buying. Marvel and DC don't owe you anything, no matter how long you've been reading. All they owe you is an entertaining read in exchange for the $3-$4 dollars you pay for each comic. And if they don't live up to their end of the bargain, then the simple response is to no longer follow up on your end.

[Lantern A-train]

I agree they didnt have to listen but it's still works as an example.

[IonFan]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Because you don't own them. It's that simple.

with as much money as i and others have giving them yeah i do own them

Originally Posted by myuserid

Do you help your favorite bands write their songs?

no but i do give them the money they need (ie i don't steal their works by downloading it)

Originally Posted by Lantern A-train

Cause when fans have a say in what happens you get things like Spidey 3

oh no you don't, we did not have a say it that peace of sh!t (ie )

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

You do have a say. If you stop liking what's happening, you can stop buying. Marvel and DC don't owe you anything, no matter how long you've been reading. All they owe you is an entertaining read in exchange for the $3-$4 dollars you pay for each comic. And if they don't live up to their end of the bargain, then the simple response is to no longer follow up on your end.

and i do that from time to time but the way things are now if alot of people do that someone could go bully up and i don't want to see that happen

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by IonFan

and i do that from time to time but the way things are now if alot of people do that someone could go bully up and i don't want to see that happen

Not really, because there are plenty of people who DO like what's going on who will keep reading. Every comic is loved and loathed by someone. I'd rather people just read what they liked and ignored what they didn't.

[JohnnyV]

Absolutely love that the writer attributes passion, and criticism to a sense of ownership. Those things don't equate to one another. If there was no passion or criticism, we wouldn't have forums like this. Just because someone has a sense of passion for a book, and gets upset when something is changed that they don't like, doesn't mean there's a sense of ownership about it.

I'll come right out and state what I don't like about books, mostly because it makes me feel better. And that's what I mostly care about.

[Mister Ed]

Originally Posted by JohnnyV

Absolutely love that the writer attributes passion, and criticism to a sense of ownership. Those things don't equate to one another. If there was no passion or criticism, we wouldn't have forums like this. Just because someone has a sense of passion for a book, and gets upset when something is changed that they don't like, doesn't mean there's a sense of ownership about it.

I'll come right out and state what I don't like about books, mostly because it makes me feel better. And that's what I mostly care about.

Yeah, I got that sense, too. It seems a veiled way of criticizing people for caring about something, because the notion that you own it is absurd, so if the writer can equate caring about something enough to criticize things you don't like with thinking you own it, it makes the one seem just as silly as the other.

[JohnnyV]

Originally Posted by Mister Ed

Yeah, I got that sense, too. It seems a veiled way of criticizing people for caring about something, because the notion that you own it is absurd, so if the writer can equate caring about something enough to criticize things you don't like with thinking you own it, it makes the one seem just as silly as the other.

The only mention in the article where you could make a case for readers feeling ownership, is the Jason Todd live/die poll. But that ownership was sponsored by DC, who simply heard the criticisms of Todd and decided to do something drastic based on those criticisms.

I imagine the whole aspect of listening to readers is a tricky balance, which you really have to take with a grain of salt, but at the same time not completely ignore. So, how about saying that instead of "Readers just feel like they own these characters".

[myuserid]

Originally Posted by myuserid

Do you help your favorite bands write their songs?

Originally Posted by IonFan

no but i do give them the money they need (ie i don't steal their works by downloading it)

Exactly. You don't help bands write their songs. Reading comics is no different.

Just because you are paying fan doesn't give you any type of ownership over a comic character, band, television show, movie - the list goes on.

You're paying for a service. If you don't like that service, don't buy it. It's the reason that since Boringest Night I won't read another Green Lantern comic as long as Geoff Johns is writing it. If he writes it forever and I never read another GL comic, so be it.

[Mister Ed]

If I didn't like a band's latest album, but liked all their previous ones, I imagine I would complain. That's not the same as saying I OWN them, and it isn't the same as writing their songs for them. It is simply me saying, "Yo, your new album kinda sucks. I wish you'd go back to whatever you were doing when you made all the OTHER albums I loved." They aren't obligated to do so, obviously. And it is the same with comics. Me saying, "I think this new direction stinks. I wish you'd go back to the old one, or try something else" is not trying to write the comics for them, and it isn't saying I OWN the characters, either. For it to reach THAT level, I have to somehow believe that they MUST do as I say. Sure, some people DO reach that level, but I'd wager it is the minority.

[SD80MAC]

Originally Posted by Mister Ed

For it to reach THAT level, I have to somehow believe that they MUST do as I say. Sure, some people DO reach that level, but I'd wager it is the minority.

Agreed. I can think of only one case in which it was actually effective, and that was H.E.A.T.! Otherwise, comics wisely soldier on. Nothing is permanent, especially in a storytelling medium.

[myuserid]

Originally Posted by Mister Ed

If I didn't like a band's latest album, but liked all their previous ones, I imagine I would complain. That's not the same as saying I OWN them, and it isn't the same as writing their songs for them. It is simply me saying, "Yo, your new album kinda sucks. I wish you'd go back to whatever you were doing when you made all the OTHER albums I loved." They aren't obligated to do so, obviously. And it is the same with comics. Me saying, "I think this new direction stinks. I wish you'd go back to the old one, or try something else" is not trying to write the comics for them, and it isn't saying I OWN the characters, either. For it to reach THAT level, I have to somehow believe that they MUST do as I say. Sure, some people DO reach that level, but I'd wager it is the minority.

I'm not talking about complaining.

I'm responding to IonFan saying he feels he should have a say in a comic because he pays for it.

Which is why I quoted his post.