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Old 11-02-2011, 10:18 PM   #1
JuanMal
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Default Great article on Newsarama about fans sense of ownership

good read

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/insi...ip-111102.html
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:40 PM   #2
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Comic fans are so weird.
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:59 PM   #3
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Comic fans are so weird.
I know I am.

Though, for myself, I don't feel like I've even thought I owned characters in some sense. What I own are my PREFERENCES about characters. So I would never say that the creators CAN'T do whatever they want with the characters. I'd just say I HATED the things they did. (Though, to be honest, there are only a few instances where I disliked the direction enough to drop the book.)

I don't think complaining about what they do sometimes implies that one feels ownership of the character. If something is created as a form of entertainment, I fail to see how it is at all abmormal to complain when it stops being entertaining.

But I do agree with the obvious point that it makes no sense to expect anything to CHANGE through complaints alone if the book is selling well. Obviously if you hate the direction, the most convincing way of saying that is by not buying it. Verbalizing your reasons for not buying it (assuming you do so in a way that the creators are likely to see it) can help IF it is coupled with a sales drop, I'm sure (and IF your reasons align with many OTHER'S reasons). But if sales are up? Why would they listen to words over sales?

That's not to say people shouldn't complain if they are still buying the book. Just that you shouldn't EXPECT change if everybody goes that route.
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:18 PM   #4
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If only this article was around during the H.E.A.T. era.
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:25 PM   #5
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If only this article was around during the H.E.A.T. era.
Right. Because nobody was saying anything similar to this back then.

This article kind of belabors the obvious, in my opinion. Maybe I'm overly optimistic about what is obvious?
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:34 AM   #6
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Perhaps. But most people are not.
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Old 11-03-2011, 04:16 AM   #7
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Science fiction, comicdom, television, anime, and popular culture in general are not all that different. I'm old enough to have been part of the letter-writing campaign when Classic Star Trek was cancelled after just two seasons. NBC thought they could kill the franchise. Ha. That was 1968. It was only the beginning. Not even the end of the beginning.

Long live -- so very glad you're back.

Long live -- wherever he is now.
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Old 11-03-2011, 04:28 AM   #8
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well we are the ones that buy them every month so why shouldn't we have a say in what happens
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I for one don't give 2 sh!ts about ISIS, we've got 2 oceans and a sh!t-ton of bombs to protect us, they even try to come over here we'll bomb'em back to the stone age. It's time for Russia, China, Africa, and the E.U. to deal with these crazy people, no more US blood for the M.E.
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Old 11-03-2011, 05:59 AM   #9
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well we are the ones that buy them every month so why shouldn't we have a say in what happens
Because you don't own them. It's that simple.
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Old 11-03-2011, 10:47 AM   #10
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well we are the ones that buy them every month so why shouldn't we have a say in what happens
Do you help your favorite bands write their songs?
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:07 PM   #11
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well we are the ones that buy them every month so why shouldn't we have a say in what happens
Cause when fans have a say in what happens you get things like Spidey 3
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You had to have a lot of patience jerking off during this time cuz we didn't have no fancy dancy intarwebs with 24/7 access to pron. Not like you kids today. We had to earn the right to masturbate by sound alone sometimes.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:11 PM   #12
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Um I pretty positive that was the decision of the studio, not us fans.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:12 PM   #13
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Based on tons of fans clamoring for Venom.
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You had to have a lot of patience jerking off during this time cuz we didn't have no fancy dancy intarwebs with 24/7 access to pron. Not like you kids today. We had to earn the right to masturbate by sound alone sometimes.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:18 PM   #14
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Yes but the studio made the final results (they could have easily have ignored the fans). Plus not everyone was up to the idea of have Spiderman 3 featuring Venom.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:20 PM   #15
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well we are the ones that buy them every month so why shouldn't we have a say in what happens
You do have a say. If you stop liking what's happening, you can stop buying. Marvel and DC don't owe you anything, no matter how long you've been reading. All they owe you is an entertaining read in exchange for the $3-$4 dollars you pay for each comic. And if they don't live up to their end of the bargain, then the simple response is to no longer follow up on your end.
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Old 11-03-2011, 12:21 PM   #16
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I agree they didnt have to listen but it's still works as an example.
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Because vaginas are the gateway to heaven. And the hershey highway takes you straight to H-E-L-L
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You had to have a lot of patience jerking off during this time cuz we didn't have no fancy dancy intarwebs with 24/7 access to pron. Not like you kids today. We had to earn the right to masturbate by sound alone sometimes.
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:48 PM   #17
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Because you don't own them. It's that simple.
with as much money as i and others have giving them yeah i do own them

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Originally Posted by myuserid View Post
Do you help your favorite bands write their songs?
no but i do give them the money they need (ie i don't steal their works by downloading it)

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Cause when fans have a say in what happens you get things like Spidey 3
oh no you don't, we did not have a say it that peace of sh!t (ie )

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You do have a say. If you stop liking what's happening, you can stop buying. Marvel and DC don't owe you anything, no matter how long you've been reading. All they owe you is an entertaining read in exchange for the $3-$4 dollars you pay for each comic. And if they don't live up to their end of the bargain, then the simple response is to no longer follow up on your end.
and i do that from time to time but the way things are now if alot of people do that someone could go bully up and i don't want to see that happen
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I for one don't give 2 sh!ts about ISIS, we've got 2 oceans and a sh!t-ton of bombs to protect us, they even try to come over here we'll bomb'em back to the stone age. It's time for Russia, China, Africa, and the E.U. to deal with these crazy people, no more US blood for the M.E.

Last edited by IonFan; 11-03-2011 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 11-03-2011, 03:55 PM   #18
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and i do that from time to time but the way things are now if alot of people do that someone could go bully up and i don't want to see that happen
Not really, because there are plenty of people who DO like what's going on who will keep reading. Every comic is loved and loathed by someone. I'd rather people just read what they liked and ignored what they didn't.
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Old 11-03-2011, 04:44 PM   #19
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Absolutely love that the writer attributes passion, and criticism to a sense of ownership. Those things don't equate to one another. If there was no passion or criticism, we wouldn't have forums like this. Just because someone has a sense of passion for a book, and gets upset when something is changed that they don't like, doesn't mean there's a sense of ownership about it.

I'll come right out and state what I don't like about books, mostly because it makes me feel better. And that's what I mostly care about.
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Old 11-03-2011, 04:57 PM   #20
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Absolutely love that the writer attributes passion, and criticism to a sense of ownership. Those things don't equate to one another. If there was no passion or criticism, we wouldn't have forums like this. Just because someone has a sense of passion for a book, and gets upset when something is changed that they don't like, doesn't mean there's a sense of ownership about it.

I'll come right out and state what I don't like about books, mostly because it makes me feel better. And that's what I mostly care about.
Yeah, I got that sense, too. It seems a veiled way of criticizing people for caring about something, because the notion that you own it is absurd, so if the writer can equate caring about something enough to criticize things you don't like with thinking you own it, it makes the one seem just as silly as the other.
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Old 11-03-2011, 05:01 PM   #21
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Yeah, I got that sense, too. It seems a veiled way of criticizing people for caring about something, because the notion that you own it is absurd, so if the writer can equate caring about something enough to criticize things you don't like with thinking you own it, it makes the one seem just as silly as the other.
The only mention in the article where you could make a case for readers feeling ownership, is the Jason Todd live/die poll. But that ownership was sponsored by DC, who simply heard the criticisms of Todd and decided to do something drastic based on those criticisms.

I imagine the whole aspect of listening to readers is a tricky balance, which you really have to take with a grain of salt, but at the same time not completely ignore. So, how about saying that instead of "Readers just feel like they own these characters".
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Old 11-03-2011, 05:11 PM   #22
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Do you help your favorite bands write their songs?
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no but i do give them the money they need (ie i don't steal their works by downloading it)
Exactly. You don't help bands write their songs. Reading comics is no different.

Just because you are paying fan doesn't give you any type of ownership over a comic character, band, television show, movie - the list goes on.

You're paying for a service. If you don't like that service, don't buy it. It's the reason that since Boringest Night I won't read another Green Lantern comic as long as Geoff Johns is writing it. If he writes it forever and I never read another GL comic, so be it.
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Old 11-03-2011, 06:02 PM   #23
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If I didn't like a band's latest album, but liked all their previous ones, I imagine I would complain. That's not the same as saying I OWN them, and it isn't the same as writing their songs for them. It is simply me saying, "Yo, your new album kinda sucks. I wish you'd go back to whatever you were doing when you made all the OTHER albums I loved." They aren't obligated to do so, obviously. And it is the same with comics. Me saying, "I think this new direction stinks. I wish you'd go back to the old one, or try something else" is not trying to write the comics for them, and it isn't saying I OWN the characters, either. For it to reach THAT level, I have to somehow believe that they MUST do as I say. Sure, some people DO reach that level, but I'd wager it is the minority.
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Old 11-03-2011, 06:13 PM   #24
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For it to reach THAT level, I have to somehow believe that they MUST do as I say. Sure, some people DO reach that level, but I'd wager it is the minority.
Agreed. I can think of only one case in which it was actually effective, and that was H.E.A.T.! Otherwise, comics wisely soldier on. Nothing is permanent, especially in a storytelling medium.
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Old 11-03-2011, 07:32 PM   #25
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If I didn't like a band's latest album, but liked all their previous ones, I imagine I would complain. That's not the same as saying I OWN them, and it isn't the same as writing their songs for them. It is simply me saying, "Yo, your new album kinda sucks. I wish you'd go back to whatever you were doing when you made all the OTHER albums I loved." They aren't obligated to do so, obviously. And it is the same with comics. Me saying, "I think this new direction stinks. I wish you'd go back to the old one, or try something else" is not trying to write the comics for them, and it isn't saying I OWN the characters, either. For it to reach THAT level, I have to somehow believe that they MUST do as I say. Sure, some people DO reach that level, but I'd wager it is the minority.
I'm not talking about complaining.

I'm responding to IonFan saying he feels he should have a say in a comic because he pays for it.

Which is why I quoted his post.
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