The Kaiju thread (Godzilla and friends)

[Agent Purple The Illustrated Man Find all posts View Profile Close Agent Purple]

Part of that has to do with hangovers from the silent era. Before talkies, people acted up a bit more, since films were less able to clearly express a person's portrayed feelings. As a result, things can come off as ham-fisted and melodramatic in comparison to films released later on into the sound era.

[Space Cop The Dandy Find all posts View Profile Close Space Cop]

Part of that has to do with hangovers from the silent era. Before talkies, people acted up a bit more, since films were less able to clearly express a person's portrayed feelings. As a result, things can come off as ham-fisted and melodramatic in comparison to films released later on into the sound era.

Yep. Likewise, people have complained about the lack of music in Dracula and Frankenstein, but in those early talkies the directors (both Browning and Whale came from silent movies) and studios weren't ready to full adapt.

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

Ironically, it was Steiner's score with the 1933 King Kong that revolutionized the way film makers looked at music as a tool to help tell their story. Max Steiner was the John Williams of his time.

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

I just can't stand that movie.

*Prepares for a flogging*

You are dead to me.

[Mister.Weirdo Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Mister.Weirdo]

As to KKL, it's pretty awful, but something about it makes me sympathetic in the way you might like the runt of the litter. And you have to admire the cojones of a screenwriter who pitched "okay, the main drama of the sequel is going to be whether open-heart surgery will save the giant ape's life. The secondary drama will be whether Kong gets laid." And then somehow that idea got a check mark despite the fact that there was no hurry (it was made a decade after its predecessor!) to cash in.

King Kong Lives is an awful movie, but like a lot of films of it's kind it has an excellent score. I don't watch the film, but I do listen to the music every now and again.

[Mister.Weirdo Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Mister.Weirdo]

Ironically, it was Steiner's score with the 1933 King Kong that revolutionized the way film makers looked at music as a tool to help tell their story. Max Steiner was the John Williams of his time.

Steiner, like a lot of composers of his era, was also a huge influence on Williams when it came to Star Wars. He was one of the the inspiration for the heavily leitmotif based nature of that score.

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

Speaking of Steiner and the 1933 Kong score, I think the 1976 Kong score gets overlooked. IMO, it was very powerful and very well done. John Barry knocked it out of the park with the mood an ominous feeling that engulfs the film. I feel like it never got the recognition it deserved, and should have at least been nominated that year.

[Mister.Weirdo Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Mister.Weirdo]

Speaking of Steiner and the 1933 Kong score, I think the 1976 Kong score gets overlooked. IMO, it was very powerful and very well done. John Barry knocked it out of the park with the mood an ominous feeling that engulfs the film. I feel like it never got the recognition it deserved, and should have at least been nominated that year.

It was actually among the runner-ups of 1976 according to FSM's Finalists list.

It's a great score though. The love theme is pure Barry, and I love how the track Presentation starts out with a discoish sound, and then starts to sound tenser as Kong is released. Plus the "dark fog" theme is great.

I also really like James Newton Howard's King Kong score, and think he did a good job with that score, considering he was a last minute replacement after Jackson and Shore parted ways because of disagreements at the time.

[Jeff Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Jeff]

You are dead to me.

[Jeff Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Jeff]

Part of that has to do with hangovers from the silent era. Before talkies, people acted up a bit more, since films were less able to clearly express a person's portrayed feelings. As a result, things can come off as ham-fisted and melodramatic in comparison to films released later on into the sound era.

Right, that's what I was getting at in a less than eloquent way. I certainly realize the transition to talkies was difficult for most people involved in movie making; but sometimes it gets a little too much.

Another example of the same thing I dislike Kong for is Dr. Pretorious in the Bride of Frankenstein. Wherein the first Frank movie had a bit of a still vibe allowing the viewer to fully indulge and immerse himself in the acting, dialogue, scenery, visuals and details of the monster and the castle, Pretorious came off so tongue in cheek that he's not even menacing until the Monster gets involved. I like Bride, don't get me wrong, but Whalers corny hammishness kind of dims the light for me, know what I mean?

[Space Cop The Dandy Find all posts View Profile Close Space Cop]

...Another example of the same thing I dislike Kong for is Dr. Pretorious in the Bride of Frankenstein. Wherein the first Frank movie had a bit of a still vibe allowing the viewer to fully indulge and immerse himself in the acting, dialogue, scenery, visuals and details of the monster and the castle, Pretorious came off so tongue in cheek that he's not even menacing until the Monster gets involved. I like Bride, don't get me wrong, but Whalers corny hammishness kind of dims the light for me, know what I mean?

I was recently watching a video (probably Cinemassacre) that pointed out how Pretorious stands out for his over-the-top character in Bride. And I agree. it might be the one thing that keeps me 100% to committing to Bride being better than its predecessor (which a lot of horror fans say).

As to soundtracks, it's funny but I don't miss it in Browning's Dracula. I had to have someone point it out to me before I even noticed it wasn't there. Frankly, I think there are more movies that could skip or tone down soundtracks/scores.* That's not to say a score can't completely change and improve a movie, but a lot of times I feel like the director doesn't actually think whether a scene needs music so much as "what music should I put here since I have to have something." This occurred to me because I watching Bogdanovitch's Targets and he mentions how he used only source soundtrack in imitation of a Hitchcock's Rearwindow and how it better suited the movie (to add a more documentary feel and disassociate the sociopath). Sometimes I find the lack of music a compelling choice.

*This is not in reference to the Kong scores, both of which I like, but harkening back to the first point of sound in early 30s movies.

[Mister.Weirdo Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Mister.Weirdo]

For me a movie requires at least some kind of background music. I don't think a drama requires "bombastic themes", but I'd like my blockbusters to have some kind of memorable or enjoyable music. I quite enjoy listening to scores on their own.

[Space Cop The Dandy Find all posts View Profile Close Space Cop]

For me a movie requires at least some kind of background music. I don't think a drama requires "bombastic themes", but I'd like my blockbusters to have some kind of memorable or enjoyable music. I quite enjoy listening to scores on their own.

But you could see how some directors (say like Italian Neo-Realism or Cinéma vérité) would see that as an artificial and obtrusive constraint, right? Personally, I think there is no required element for a movie beyond it having a moving image. If the filmmaker wants a four hour, unedited, unstaged shot of an unscripted conversation, that's completely legitimate.

No, I've enjoyed unscored movies before and hearing a movie was unscored would not make me any less eager to see it or more predisposed to dislike it.

But then again, maybe I underestimate the music. I can't think of a single movie where the score was the deciding factor of whether I liked it or not. I've definitely found ones where it helped or hindered, but it's never been the make or break point for me. Or to put it another way, I wouldn't listen to the soundtrack of a movie I didn't like.

[Mister.Weirdo Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Mister.Weirdo]

But you could see how some directors (say like Italian Neo-Realism or Cinéma vérité) would see that as an artificial and obtrusive constraint, right? Personally, I think there is no required element for a movie beyond it having a moving image. If the filmmaker wants a four hour, unedited, unstaged shot of an unscripted conversation, that's completely legitimate.

No, I've enjoyed unscored movies before and hearing a movie was unscored would not make me any less eager to see it or more predisposed to dislike it.

But then again, maybe I underestimate the music. I can't think of a single movie where the score was the deciding factor of whether I liked it or not. I've definitely found ones where it helped or hindered, but it's never been the make or break point for me. Or to put it another way, I wouldn't listen to the soundtrack of a movie I didn't like.

Oh don't get me wrong, I have nothing against scoreless movies, it's just that when you're making a big budgeted potential, I expect the theme to be memorable and the score to at least have some real listenability factor (not so much these days I'm afraid). I'm a more of a fan of memorable, music that very melodic and pumpy. It's why I can respect something like Goldsmith's Planet of The Apes (it's great, don't get me wrong), but it's not something I'd listened to again and again.

Of course this is my preference. I think a serious movie having a bombastic theme would be totally inappropriate. Just imagine if Oskar Schindler had a heroic theme, it'd totally take you out of the film instantly, and would be quite inappropriate for the film. It's just a matter of the composer knowing when to right kind of music for the right kind of film.

[Space Cop The Dandy Find all posts View Profile Close Space Cop]

We've gotten way past kaiju, but I think it's good.

[As a side note, I love Ifukube's scores.]

...Of course this is my preference. I think a serious movie having a bombastic theme would be totally inappropriate. Just imagine if Oskar Schindler had a heroic theme, it'd totally take you out of the film instantly, and would be quite inappropriate for the film. It's just a matter of the composer knowing when to right kind of music for the right kind of film.

Yep. The real masters do seem to understand this even if the studios might not always get it.

Actually, I find soundtracks (I mean licensed music) more distracting. If a movie uses a kind of music I don't like (say all hip hop or thrasher metal), I find it harder to like the movie. There are a few movies I like where the soundtrack is annoying enough that I have to turn the volume down while it plays.