Should the red and blue states split up?

[TazzMission Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close TazzMission]

On what do you base the idea that cheating happened? Because you didn't like the result? Because the utter failure of Trump to produce any evidence that holds up under scrutiny, and the fact that people in his own administration, judges HE appointed, and Republicans actually involved in the election process in contested states ALL reject his claims of widespread voting fraud (and the Supreme Court, with THREE of his appointees don't even think any of his cases are worthy of even considering), seems to point to the fact that Trump is just making it up to soothe his own ego. Trump spent months telling his supporters not to vote by mail. And it is somehow shocking or surprising at all that mail-in ballots went heavily for Biden? That's not evidence of a conspiracy or a rigged election, that's evidence that his supporters listened to his (baseless) claims about mail-in voting being unreliable.

Heck, if the Democrats were rigging the election, why would they lose so many seats in the house? Why would they lose control of some state legislatures? Frankly, other than the Presidency, Democrats didn't do so hot this year. Kinda odd if they rigged it, isn't it?

Were there some irregularities somewhere? Sure. Were they larger than in previous elections? No. Were they significant enough to have effected the outcome? Nope, doesn't look that way.

Well around 4 states were found to have dumped ballots wich were for trump. I dont think trump failed entirely because lets look at the peace deal with the uab and Israel wich is a success . Im sorry but as a former obama supporter wich i was obama didnt achieve anything in the middle east other than bombing to kill qadafi. What war are we in currently where soilders are dying and we leave a country in shambles? Really think about this how many terror attacks did the usa have in these 4 years specialy only by radical islamists? Im not suggesting obama allowed it but you had more under him than you did trump. Is trump a perfect speaker? Fuck no but i only go by the action not by the words. Any politician can say what they want but words are nothing only action

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

Well around 4 states were found to have dumped ballots wich were for trump.

Evidence of this claim? Because all I can find is evidence that these claims are mostly false, or at least highly misleading, and involving such small numbers when there was ANY validity to it as to be totally irrelevant to the result.

And the issue isn't whether I think Trump was a bad President. I happen to think that, even though he did do some things I see as worthwhile, but the issue is that, whether or not I think he was a bad President, he LOST the election.

This is the first Presidential election, since I've been old enough to vote, in which I actually voted for the winner. But when my chosen candidates have lost, I haven't somehow taken that as proof that there must have been massive fraud.

[TazzMission Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close TazzMission]

Evidence of this claim? Because all I can find is evidence that these claims are mostly false, or at least highly misleading, and involving such small numbers when there was ANY validity to it as to be totally irrelevant to the result.

The states were Michigan new jersey that i recall atm wich were the biggest two. I think the new jersey one made a arrest for vote tampering if im not mistaken in like September

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

The New Jersey case involved a total of 99 ballots, all of which were actually delivered in time for the election. It isn't even certain that it was targeted at the ballots, as the person dumped about 2000 pieces of mail total, so less than 5% of that was even ballots (and these weren't voted ballots, they were unvoted ballots on their way to voters, and they were actually delivered).

As far as I can find, the Michigan claims have no truth to them. The only ones I can find are people posting claims that "500 Trump votes were found dumped" at some precinct. This was not true at all, all those votes were counted (along with the many Biden votes that were also in that batch of votes that hadn't been counted yet).

EDIT: Y'know what, never mind. I'm not deleting my posts because I generally try to avoid that, but I apologize for even taking up the argument. All I'm doing is raising my stress level and accomplishing nothing. I've learned by now that I should never have political discussions after the fact of any election or vote on any issue, because they do nothing but promote discord, and for this I apologize. (And even before such votes, I should limit myself to discussion in settings where it might realistically lead to serious consideration of stuff. And that's rare.)

[Trey Strain Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Trey Strain]

If the red states do it, it should be called Rexit.

The red and blue states have more reason to split up than Britain and the EU did.

[TazzMission Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close TazzMission]

EDIT: Y'know what, never mind. I'm not deleting my posts because I generally try to avoid that, but I apologize for even taking up the argument. All I'm doing is raising my stress level and accomplishing nothing. I've learned by now that I should never have political discussions after the fact of any election or vote on any issue, because they do nothing but promote discord, and for this I apologize. (And even before such votes, I should limit myself to discussion in settings where it might realistically lead to serious consideration of stuff. And that's rare.)

Im not asking you to delete your posts. I find that as being censorship wich im 100 percent against

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

Im not asking you to delete your posts. I find that as being censorship wich im 100 percent against

Oh, I didn't think you were asking me to do that.

I was just explaining that I try to avoid deleting posts as a general rule, even if I regret making them after the fact. It seems better to me to just apologize and/or explain, but leave them up there.

In theory this practice makes me think harder before I post, though obviously it isn't a perfect system.

[IonFan Forum Member Find all posts View Profile Close IonFan]

The Democrats did not cheat.

+ YouTube Video

and as for my proof "Joe got more votes then Obama"........................ THE MAN COULDN'T FILL A PARKING LOT PEOPLE

but you know what i don't want another Qward fight to start (or a ban ) so that's all i'm gonna say about this

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

+ YouTube Video

and as for my proof "Joe got more votes then Obama"........................ THE MAN COULDN'T FILL A PARKING LOT PEOPLE

but you know what i don't want another Qward fight to start (or a ban ) so that's all i'm gonna say about this

So you've got nothing but Trump's twisted delusions. Good to know. (And that's all I'm going to say, too.)

[IonFan Forum Member Find all posts View Profile Close IonFan]

So you've got nothing but Trump's twisted delusions. Good to know. (And that's all I'm going to say, too.)

alright, good................................. NOW LETS GET THIS CIVIL WAR STARTED


and one more just cause

[TazzMission Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close TazzMission]

So you've got nothing but Trump's twisted delusions. Good to know. (And that's all I'm going to say, too.)

I have to ask and im not trying to be a asshole but did you ever believe in 2016 trump stole the election? I just find it baffling that not just 1 but 2 elections are accused of being stolen. I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but it seems like these 2 elections were a way to devide the country. It feels like we are all stuck in a repeating loop

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

I have to ask and im not trying to be a asshole but did you ever believe in 2016 trump stole the election? I just find it baffling that not just 1 but 2 elections are accused of being stolen. I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but it seems like these 2 elections were a way to devide the country. It feels like we are all stuck in a repeating loop

No, unlike Trump (and those who take everything he says as gospel truth) keep claiming about this election, I never thought Trump stole the 2016 election. Nor did his opponent, who unlike Trump, actually conceded.

I might have found it regrettable that he managed to win with far less of the popular vote than his opponent, and I do believe that Russia attempted to influence the result (not through fraud, but by influencing people through social media) in Trump's favor (though I never thought Trump actually organized that with them). But I had zero reason to think that his win came through actual voting fraud. Just like there is zero reason to think that now.

I also thought that the Democrats were wrong to try to impeach him over Russian collusion (for which there was never really good evidence), but thought that he DID obstruct justice by interfering with the investigation (even though he really didn't need to, but that's Trump for you. Even being investigated was a blow to his fragile ego, so he felt the need to interfere despite not being guilty of that charge).

I do think he should have been impeached (and removed, but the Republicans wouldn't remove him even if he murdered somebody in public, it seems) over his abuse of power in withholding aid to Ukraine that had already been approved by Congress in an attempt to get them to give him a political advantage in his campaign by announcing an investigation into the Bidens. (But unfortunately, that wasn't the grounds they impeached him on.)

[TazzMission Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close TazzMission]

No, unlike Trump (and those who take everything he says as gospel truth) keep claiming about this election, I never thought Trump stole the 2016 election. Nor did his opponent, who unlike Trump, actually conceded.

I might have found it regrettable that he managed to win with far less of the popular vote than his opponent, and I do believe that Russia attempted to influence the result (not through fraud, but by influencing people through social media) in Trump's favor (though I never thought Trump actually organized that with them). But I had zero reason to think that his win came through actual voting fraud. Just like there is zero reason to think that now.

I also thought that the Democrats were wrong to try to impeach him over Russian collusion (for which there was never really good evidence), but thought that he DID obstruct justice by interfering with the investigation (even though he really didn't need to, but that's Trump for you. Even being investigated was a blow to his fragile ego, so he felt the need to interfere despite not being guilty of that charge).

I do think he should have been impeached (and removed, but the Republicans wouldn't remove him even if he murdered somebody in public, it seems) over his abuse of power in withholding aid to Ukraine that had already been approved by Congress in an attempt to get them to give him a political advantage in his campaign by announcing an investigation into the Bidens. (But unfortunately, that wasn't the grounds they impeached him on.)

See this is the constructive discussion i can never get with most democrats mainly in my family i really appreciate we can discuss this where we both arent being venomis

[Mister Ed Horse of a Different Color Find all posts View Profile Close Mister Ed]

See this is the constructive discussion i can never get with most democrats mainly in my family i really appreciate we can discuss this where we both arent being venomis

Well, it may help that I'm not a Democrat. I'm not registered with any party. I've voted both Democrat and Republican for President (I even voted for Ross Perot, which was probably not the best use of my vote, but seemed like a good idea at the time). This is the first time I've ever voted for somebody who won, though.

Yes, that means I voted Republican both times Obama ran. I'm not a Democrat with an axe to grind, I genuinely believe Trump is a bad President (and an awful person, too), but I'm willing to acknowledge when he does stuff that seems good, and will even defend him against what I see as unfair accusations (though when doing so, I usually also point out what I think the FAIR accusations are).

[TazzMission Guardian of the Universe Find all posts View Profile Close TazzMission]

Well, it may help that I'm not a Democrat. I'm not registered with any party. I've voted both Democrat and Republican for President (I even voted for Ross Perot, which was probably not the best use of my vote, but seemed like a good idea at the time). This is the first time I've ever voted for somebody who won, though.

Yes, that means I voted Republican both times Obama ran. I'm not a Democrat with an axe to grind, I genuinely believe Trump is a bad President (and an awful person, too), but I'm willing to acknowledge when he does stuff that seems good, and will even defend him against what I see as unfair accusations (though when doing so, I usually also point out what I think the FAIR accusations are).

Same in terms of acknowledging the possitive achievements done. Thats why i switched and voted for him and keep in mind he's not a career seasoned politician. Realisticaly racism will still be here wich really is a shame. No party will end it because like abortion gay rights guns i feel race with those are a political advantage for votes really. Kind of similar to the bullying debate where people think bullying will end. People ask me why i dont protest and i say its because i dont want to be lumped with a group of people who cant keep there head together and do something stupid like torch a city or randomly target people . People like that ruin protesting for people who are civil rational and are decent people. Really it just takes 1 nutjob to ruin it for everybody. Besides if im going to be accused of something i want it to be for what i did not for someone elses actions