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Originally posted by SD80MAC
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When was Hal shown to be a "terrible racist"? He definitely exhibited sexist behavior, but as far as racism goes, the worst that springs to mind is coming up with a lame nickname for Tom. That seems a far cry from labelling him a "terrible racist".
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Well, to that I think Hal would say that flying the planes is more of a thrill because it contains an element of risk and challenge that flying with a ring really doesn't.Originally posted by sundrop View PostComment
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I really liked how he was depicted in volume 4 from 1 to after #25. For modern Hal, that was the best in the last 20 years.
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Do you think that he should be in the air force with the general knowing and allowing him to take leave and be Green Lantern?Originally posted by Big Daddy Dave View Post
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Product of his times. As America went through the initial stages of the civil rights movement, the issues were argued in "relevant" comics. Tom's nickname became racist in hindsight. GL #76 Hal wrestled with racism and got over it when John Stewart was added to the ranks. As as for "sexist," well, so what? So was everyone else in comics, so was everyone else that wrote comics, so was television and culture at large, and until we women became liberated we didn't know any better. But to have Carol as the head of a Boeing-level corporation in 1960? Not sexist.Originally posted by SD80MAC View Post
1960s Hal was suave. Debonaire. A player of the game the way the game was played at the time. A great ballroom dancer. A gentleman who held doors open for women and dared to bring them flowers. To my generation "douche" still refers solely to a feminine cleansing product, so I disagree. 1960s Hal was never brainless. He was college-educated in a time when it meant something. He rose to top gun test pilot through skill, courage, insightful decision-making, and hard work. Involved in sports we frown on now, like hunting and fishing. Knew his way around the woods, hiking and camping. Drove a nice sports car. But not a playboy like Bruce Wayne, or a stick in the mud like Barry Allen, or flippant and irrelevant like our JLA mascot kid Lucas "Snapper" Carr. He was his own character, but mature. In his own way.
So what we need, for the character to appeal to a wider audience, is a Hal that reflects the culture of THIS time, the year 2014. And that brings me back to a question I asked above. Just who is it that y'all admire in our culture? Snowden, the thief of national secrets? Amanda Knox, the lady who's getting away with murder? Justin Bieber? Obama?
The power of will is found at the deepest level of your being. It's more than mere rules. It's a duty that you must honor. Comment
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Why not?Originally posted by TEN_RINGS View PostDo you think that he should be in the air force with the general knowing and allowing him to take leave and be Green Lantern?
The power of will is found at the deepest level of your being. It's more than mere rules. It's a duty that you must honor. Comment
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I actually liked that subplot. It only sucks (to me anyway) in hindsight because Johns completely abandoned it. There was a supporting cast set up with Shane, the love interest with Cowgirl, the antagonist/sometime ally set up with Genral Stone that would have played out like General Eiling for Captain Atom. I think there was a lot of untapped potential with Hal having the boss who would let him come and go (which solved a lot of problems in story that were present when Hal worked for Ferris), but the cost would be that he would have to do jobs for the general that he wouldn't have done otherwise.Originally posted by TEN_RINGS View PostDo you think that he should be in the air force with the general knowing and allowing him to take leave and be Green Lantern?
I'll always prefer Hal to be a test pilot for Ferris Aircraft, working for Carol and her father, but this was a good alternative.Comment
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Very much so and that's fine with me. When I admire or like a real person or fictional character it doesn't have to mean I emulate them in every minutiae or that I find everything they do appropriate to their time and ours.Originally posted by Evergreen City View Post
Although, at first, it was presented as an "ain't she lucky for a girl" kind of thing. There was always a footnote explaining that her leadership was temporary and she had to promise to dad not to date the workers (because you know you can't trust a "girl" in power not to go after every man on the payroll!). And Carol was a product of her time to. She's head-over-heals for a guy (GL) for superficial reasons and she plays into gender sterotypes of the time (e.g., keeps waiting for him to ask her out or even propose except on Leap Day because then it's acceptable for a lady to ask). But again, she's just a product of her time.Originally posted by Evergreen City View PostComment
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The more I think about it...my ideal Hal Jordan is the original Parallax.Comment
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That never made sense to me. Like I said, other than Tom's goofy nickname, I don't recall Hal ever doing anything racist. I couldn't understand why he hung his head in shame when confronted by the old, black man in that book. As far as I could tell, he did as much for the "black skins" as he ever did for the "purple skins" and "orange skins". He fought supervillains and invading aliens, etc. That benefitted everybody, no matter their skin color. He didn't crusade for social reform, but he didn't do that on other planets, either, by and large. That doesn't make him racist. And when it came to John Stewart, the Guardians assumed something like racism on Hal's part, but he denied it, and I saw no real evidence that it was the case.Originally posted by Evergreen City View PostComment
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Because he was written by a guilty white liberal who thought all white people should hang their heads in shame? God knows I love Denny O'Neil, but he's as much of a moonbatty guilty white liberal as is humanly possible.Originally posted by Mister Ed View PostComment
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It could be that I was just getting too hung up on the actual WORDS the old man spoke.
I mean, he was essentially saying that Hal did more to help aliens than black people, when that's just patently not true. He did exactly the same sort of stuff for everybody on Earth, of whatever color, that he did for the aliens...namely fighting superpowered evildoers for the most part. There was an implied disparity there that clearly didn't exist. If anything Hal disproportionately helped people on Earth (including the black skins) compared to the rest of his Sector.
Had the man actually asked why GL doesn't take the time to champion civil rights or something, that would have been a whole different discussion, and I probably wouldn't have found it so odd, but the way he phrased it just bugged me, sounding like Hal would jump to it if Sinestro was attacking some alien planet, but would just stay home if he was attacking black people on Earth...Comment
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Oh man I hate that issue. I would have been a imature jerk about it. I would have benn all like,dude I saved the Earth like a billion times! So instead of saying thanks for keeping my planet alive. You call me a racist? You did it. Next time a asteroid comes hurtling down towards Earth,I am just gonna go some place else. Who am I to screw with God's will. Congrats bud,you just ruined it for every one. Enjoy the rest of your life "Planet Killer"! Then fly off knowing everybody is going to give him a hard time.
I am pretty sure the original Guardians,frowned upon,Green Lantern's forcing planets into social changes. I think if you force your will onto a planet(right or wrong) you are going into Sinestro territory. Earth is a young planet,it has much growing to do.
Take life with a Grain of salt and a shot of tequila!
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