Why IS WW still part of the "Big 3"?

[Hypo Lil' Leaguer Find all posts View Profile Close Hypo]

Probably because Joss 'the writer of strong, interesting, intelligent female characters' Whedon isn't writing it

Actually I think Rucka fits that description better than Whedon (at least in the realm of comics) and even his run wasn't enough to satisfy DC. Plus Whedon did try and get the WW movie off the ground...and failed miserably.

[chivalrous Corps Honor Guard Find all posts View Profile Close chivalrous]

Plus Whedon did try and get the WW movie off the ground...and failed miserably.

It's pretty obvious to say 'movies aren't comics': send a big fat 'well d'uh!' my way for that sparkling observation

But movies have the problem of having to appeal to everyone and those who make the decisions to allocate the money tend not to see strong, intelligent female main characters* as crowd pullers (unless they're played by Angelina Jolie).

If a Wonder Woman movie (or even a series) is going to get off the ground, then it's going to have to drum up support before the pitch is made. It's been said before that they should follow the trend set by Mortal Kombat, the Guild and Dr. Horrible and start things off with web-based minisodes.

*rather than supporting characters, note Wonder Woman doesn't really have a male supporting character with as far as the execs are concerned is another mark against.

[Michael Heide Heide Finition Find all posts View Profile Close Michael Heide]

If they paired a brillant and popular writer (Gaiman, Morrison, Johns, BKV, Peter David, Ed Brubaker or Matt Fraction) with a great artist (any Kubert, JG Jones, JH Williams III, Chris Sprouse, McNiven or Jim Lee) and gave them carte blanche, you'd have a Top 5 book in an instant. And I've got to say that the upcoming Azzarello run does indeed look promising.

[Hypo Lil' Leaguer Find all posts View Profile Close Hypo]

If a Wonder Woman movie (or even a series) is going to get off the ground, then it's going to have to drum up support before the pitch is made. It's been said before that they should follow the trend set by Mortal Kombat, the Guild and Dr. Horrible and start things off with web-based minisodes.

Honestly I think you're overestimating just how much support a web-based series would give you.

*rather than supporting characters, note Wonder Woman doesn't really have a male supporting character with as far as the execs are concerned is another mark against.

I'd argue that Wonder Woman just doesn't have a stable supporting cast in general at least not like Batman (Alfred, Gordon) or Superman (Lois Lane, the Daily Planet, etc.). Part of that has to do with the way her book has been handled.

Honestly the best way to get her movie made would probably be to play up the Greek mythology aspects over the straight superheroics...otherwise make a Justice League movie first and then spin out a WW movie from it.

If they paired a brillant and popular writer (Gaiman, Morrison, Johns, BKV, Peter David, Ed Brubaker or Matt Fraction) with a great artist (any Kubert, JG Jones, JH Williams III, Chris Sprouse, McNiven or Jim Lee) and gave them carte blanche, you'd have a Top 5 book in an instant. And I've got to say that the upcoming Azzarello run does indeed look promising.

True, but you can say that about any series tbh.

[Michael Heide Heide Finition Find all posts View Profile Close Michael Heide]

I disagree. Legendary creators Neil Gaiman and John Romita Jr. were not enough to make the Eternals miniseries a while back sell. If I remember correctly, that tanked surprisingly hard.
But if you were to put them on a character with the kind of history and reputation of a Wonder Woman? Hot cakes.

[Andrew NDB Shot Caller Find all posts View Profile Close Andrew NDB]

The WW comic has become near Legion of Super-Heroes levels of toxic. Mostly due to each writer pretty much jettisoning everything the writer before it did with WW and starting anew (over and over again)... sets a bad precedent, and isn't conducive to any kind of long term readership I've ever heard of. I mean, look what's going on -- WW is literally in the middle of a reboot with the JMS storyline right now and oh look, here comes ANOTHER WW reboot on the horizon.

I think Paradise Island has been "destroyed" about 10 times now and Diana's had about 100 "Who am I?" stories (and I mean, c'mon... if she hasn't arrived at an answer yet, it's probably best to just tap out). That's generally par for the course whenever a new writer takes over Diana. Which is often.

I blame editorial.

[Orion Pax Iolande's Bodyguard Find all posts View Profile Close Orion Pax]

West´s rant is funny.

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

The WW comic has become near Legion of Super-Heroes levels of toxic. Mostly due to each writer pretty much jettisoning everything the writer before it did with WW and starting anew (over and over again)... sets a bad precedent, and isn't conducive to any kind of long term readership I've ever heard of. I mean, look what's going on -- WW is literally in the middle of a reboot with the JMS storyline right now and oh look, here comes ANOTHER WW reboot on the horizon.

I think Paradise Island has been "destroyed" about 10 times now and Diana's had about 100 "Who am I?" stories (and I mean, c'mon... if she hasn't arrived at an answer yet, it's probably best to just tap out). That's generally par for the course whenever a new writer takes over Diana. Which is often.

I blame editorial.

While JMS' story is nothing special and does fall under the typical "Who am I?" new writer banner, it isn't a reboot. Its not even a new direction, just a different way of telling a Wonder Woman story about the same character going through unknown changes and eventually making her way back to the character people know and love. Unfortunately, JMS/Hester aren't capable of telling that story very well to make it work.

[Hypo Lil' Leaguer Find all posts View Profile Close Hypo]

While JMS' story is nothing special and does fall under the typical "Who am I?" new writer banner, it isn't a reboot. Its not even a new direction, just a different way of telling a Wonder Woman story about the same character going through unknown changes and eventually making her way back to the character people know and love. Unfortunately, JMS/Hester aren't capable of telling that story very well to make it work.

I think JMS might've had a shot at telling that story but once he left the book there was just no chance it was going to come out well.

[Big Daddy Dave Skywalker Moisture Farmer Find all posts View Profile Close Big Daddy Dave Skywalker]

I wouldn't put Wolverine in there.
For the same reasons as I mentioned for Wonder Woman, Hulk has pretty much instant recognition across cultural boundaries and ought to take his spot.
Wolverine might make #7 behind Captain America.

X-Men movies and cartoons have helped raised Wolverine's profile, but I still hear people talking about 'Wolf-man' if they recognise him at all.

I wouldn't put Wolverine on that list of most recognizable characters to non comics fans either. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spiderman, and I'd agree the Hulk. I'd also add Robin to that list, even above the Hulk.

[Rotten2thecorps Alpha-Lantern Find all posts View Profile Close Rotten2thecorps]

Wonder Woman"s popularity is only Skin deep. Yes you can go out on the Street and Ask some one who Wonder Woman is they will know the Image,but few of them Know a damn thing about her. Ask that same person How she bacame Wonedr Woman. Or even what her Real name is and you will get a blank stare. Most of her fans and pretty much fan base stem from an old TV show.

DC comics is in the Business of selling comics. and Frankly that is one super power Wonder Woman just dose not have.. The trinity is old thinking. and if DC is ever gonna play in the same ball field with Marvel they need to stop benching thier star players.

The WB on the other hand is a diffrent story. No one wants to read Wonder Woman but if you do it right I think people will watch her. Wonder Woman needs to stop being the Token Girl and be played for her strengths.

[W.West Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close W.West]

Wonder Woman"s popularity is only Skin deep. Yes you can go out on the Street and Ask some one who Wonder Woman is they will know the Image,but few of them Know a damn thing about her. Ask that same person How she bacame Wonedr Woman. Or even what her Real name is and you will get a blank stare. Most of her fans and pretty much fan base stem from an old TV show.

DC comics is in the Business of selling comics. and Frankly that is one super power Wonder Woman just dose not have.. The trinity is old thinking. and if DC is ever gonna play in the same ball field with Marvel they need to stop benching thier star players.

The WB on the other hand is a diffrent story. No one wants to read Wonder Woman but if you do it right I think people will watch her. Wonder Woman needs to stop being the Token Girl and be played for her strengths.

You say that like Green Lantern (or any other DC character)is anywhere close to that level! Even the people who connect Green Lantern with being black, they don't know him as John Stewart, they know him as THE BLACK GUY. No one ever says "Green Lantern is supposed to be John Stewart." They say "Wasn't Green Lantern black?"

Saying Wonder Woman is playing token is the biggest bullshit statement you could make. THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF FEMALE CHARACTERS in this fucking industry and not only do a lot of them share Diana's powerset they appear in more than one book unlike Diana.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that she relies on being a girl for her stardom and then shit on her sales. Because ALL female characters have low sales. You can't say that Wonder Woman doesn't deserve her ICONIC status because her book is shit right now, because you certainly weren't calling for Superman's head when Superman Returns was released or when he was fucking electric blue. Come up with a legit argument and maybe I'll take you sexist assholes seriously. You know what, I apologize. Maybe all of you aren't sexist, maybe some of you are just hardcore Green Lantern fans/apologists. Whatever you want to call yourself, do it quietly and draw any further attention to your ignorance because there is no excuse for it.

[Robinson Guardian Of The Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Robinson]

I'm not being sexist about it, like someone said earlier I think that the general public that knows wonder woman either only knows her from merchandise or the tv show.


Its kind of like supergirl, in the comics there was so much flux going on that unless you were an avid reader you wouldnt know what the hell was happening, but you didnt need to know any of that to wear a "supergirl" t shirt.

Same thing with wonder woman, you can get a wonder woman lunchbox without knowing anything about the issues because she is a symbol of a woman with power and thats what DC relies on for the marketing of merchandise.

Superman - Ultimate do gooder
Batman - Brains before brawn (gets kids to think before acting)
Wonder Woman - So that little girls have someone to look up to thats not and will have their parents by merchandise.


In the DC comic world her status in the trinity may be justified, in the real world her status is their for girls to have an option, just like John Stewart in JLU, its simply for the diversity.

[Bolerathon Avant Guardian Find all posts View Profile Close Bolerathon]

In the DC comic world her status in the trinity may be justified, in the real world her status is their for girls to have an option, just like John Stewart in JLU, its simply for the diversity.

John Stewart may have started that way but because of the ongoing nature of comics he became a character in his own right. Same applies to Wonder Woman. She may have started off as a female empowerment cypher but over time has been allowed to grow. Bitching about her being inconsistently characterised makes no sense. We saw Hal going off to find himself and banging a 13 year old, we've seen Batman written as a murderous lunatic, we've seen Superman brandishing a mullet and a gun. That's part and parcel of ongoing, open ended titles.

[Robinson Guardian Of The Universe Find all posts View Profile Close Robinson]

I'm getting away from the comics aspect and talking about real world applications because if DC only used "wholesome" characters for its merchandising then neither wonder woman or batman would be there.

At this stage in the game Wonder Woman is more important as a Symbol than as an actual character.